Sorry about the
[/QUOTE]
muck up above, Mehitabel said the second set of Bolded words, the stuff in the Quote bars was by Captain Amazing.
One reason not mentioned yet is belief in the Devil. That is where the U.S. really seperates itself from the rest of the world as can be seen in the link in mooka’s post.
Whether or not you believe in God is one thing — you can believe in a “Great Spirit” in a Disney non-threastening sort of way & never change your actions or externally show it. But if you believe in a DEVIL and Hell you are more likely to change your behavior and, re the OP, be “more religious”
This just reminds me that I really need to move to the UK. The religiosity here in the states is unbearable and insulting. And dangerous.
Also, the UK has fewer zombies.
The proper question is not why Britain is not very religious, but why the USA is so much more religious than other developed western countries. It is the USA that is the anomaly that needs explaining.
I think a large part (I don’t say all) of the answer lies in the way that religion in the USA has been co-opted politically, so that being “Christian” (especially Christian fundamentalist) has, for many, become almost synonymous with being deeply conservative. That is not true in other countries, where Christians are found all across the political spectrum, and many Christians even believe that Christian principles mandate socialism. (Such people do exist in the USA, but in much smaller numbers and with much less political visibility and influence.) In large part, American “Christian conservatives” are not conservative because they are Christian, they are “Christian” (in quotes because to most European Christians, even relatively politically conservative ones, it is a weird, perverted and even heretical version of Christianity) because they are radically conservative. (Of course, they are not conservative in any very literal sense, either: more like radical right-wing reactionary.)
Of course, this raises the question of why the political centre of gravity in the USA is so far to the right of that in other developed countries, and how such an extreme political ideology can have become mainstream. That, however, is another question (and I do not have a good answer to it at my fingertips.)
…
My only contribution to this zombie thread is to mention that Australia is another first world country that has very low levels of religion, to the point where it’s considered a bit odd when someone says they do have religious beliefs. Also we currently have an atheist prime minister. Yay us!
I’d completely disagree with this. Anecdotal, I know, but I was born and raised in the UK until I was 26, and since then have lived in (city wise) Chicago, Philadelphia, Nashville and DC, all of which had much greater degrees of religious observance than any UK city I know. I’d never think in the UK of not arranging something for early on a Sunday because people might want to go to Church.
ETA … Grrrrrr just noticed the zombie nature.
What percentage of Democrats identify themselves as “Christian”? I’m speaking both of the electorate and those running for office – not to mention the practicing Jews and self-identified Muslims currently serving in Congress.
One theory I have heard is that because most European countries had Established Churches, religion was another source of political corruption for people to complain about. In the US, church membership was (more) voluntary, so people had more positive views about church. (the one that they chose to attend, anyway)
I have read that, in the days when the Turkish sultans claimed to be the Caliph, most Muslims were pretty cynical about their religious leaders.
[ul]
[li]The heads of two of the three biggest parties are atheists.[/li][li]It is unlikely the current archbishop believes in Christianity.[/li][li]Very low church attendance.[/li][li]**<DEBATEABLE>**Devout Christians may be persecuted by the establishment.[/li][li]Most charities here are secular[/li][/ul]
Australia is ALOT more Christian than the UK.
[troll] Has Barack H. Obama finally revealled his true faith? [/troll]
I have no idea. Probably most, but I think only a minority of them would identify with the sort of “Christian conservatism” that I am talking about. Most of them are probably Christians of much the same general sort as are most of the people in Britain or other first-world western countries who self-identify as Christians. Many may be quite liberal in their political views (although they will rarely explicitly link that to their Christianity, unlike many left-wing Christians elsewhere). It is not these people who make America seem hugely more religious than other places, and it is not from these that the impetus for such things as denying evolution arises (although some get infected by it). What makes America different is the large number of vocal and politically influential hard-right “Christian conservatives”. The “Christian right” is a very real, important, and well recognized phenomenon of American politics and society.
Note also many people who vote Democrat, or are elected as Democrats, are often very conservative by the standards of the rest of the world. Although most American “liberals” are Democrats, and some are really quite left-wing, by no means all Democrats are “liberals.”
[mod note]
Your comment is also unbearable and insulting - at least in the GQ forum. Please feel free to express your religious beliefs (or non-religious beliefs, as the case may be) in the Great Debates forum or the Pit, but not here.
And don’t revive eight-year-old threads unless you have something new to contribute.
[/mod note]
nm
Nitpick: Rural, religious states also have a disproportionate voice in the presidential election.
The party activists, which in the Republican tend toward Tea Party or Evangelical, also have a huge influence on the primaries which set the tone for the presidential elections. Plus, in a recent interview Bill Clinton observed that about 40% to 45% are committed to vote for one party. It’s the fight over that 15% to 20% that really counts - plus whether you tick off enough of your own people that they stay home. (Isn’t that right, Senator McCain the abortion rights supporter until the election?)
I recall an article in the Globe and Mail by a Canadian who moved to Texas, many years ago. She said the emphasis on church - which church do you belong to, are your kids going to bible camp, etc. - was overwhelming.
In Canada such stuff is never discussed; since the big fight in Canada for 150 years was catholic vs. protestant; with overtones of english vs. french and irish. Separate scool boards for “them” Catholics was a element of Canada even enshrined in the constitution in 1983 and stillfound today in some provinces.
If the topic of religion comes up, first, the overwhelming majority are of Catholic extraction (French, Italian, Irish, Portugese, Phillipino, etc.) plus current trends are mostly admitting sikhs, muslims, and hindu - so fundamentalist is a no starter (which makes me wonder how long the currrent prime minister can keep two-facing his views). Someone running for office strongly emphasizing fundamental Christian values would likely be laughed out of the election, probably like Australia. Other than the obviously Catholic prime ministers, like Trudeau, Chretien, Turner, Mulroney and Paul Martin, I have no idea what denomination any of our other prime ministers are - Clark, Deifenbaker, even Harper. It’s just not relevant. Them going to church on Sunday (if they did) is not a news story.
The fight over Morgentaler and his abortion rights campaign effectively showed that much of the conservative church heirarchy had little influence with the people, and even in overwhelmingly Catholic Quebec it was impossible, 3 times in a row, to get a jury to convict Dr. Morgentaler for performing illegal abortions back in the 1970’s.
SO I would put the attitude in Canada close to that of Australia. Keep religion out of government.
I’m wondering when this fundamental change in European religious beliefs and practice occurred. The Orwell quotation in the OP indicates it was quite some time ago, but when and why?
I’ll blame the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, at least in part, and in Britain the Tudors, for essentially managing to switch the official state religion (and the rites and observances required within) back and forth for a while; that kind of thing would tend to breed a certain practicality of mind among a populace. Also i’d add the brief time we spent over here as a republic and return to monarchy, since that also managed to fuck around with churches in various fun ways.
Where do you live that the “religiosity” is “unbearable and insulting”?
I mean, I live in North Texas, which is awfully high on the “ostentatious” Christianity meter, and with the exception of the occasional Bible-thumper who I run into, or the occasional de-facto assumption that I’m Christian (which I am, but not any one particular denomination), I don’t see all that much intrusion of religious stuff into daily life.