is 'buggery' a derogatory term?

[MrDibble]

“Bugger” and its various derivations is a very mild swear to me - I could have said “Oh Bugger” in front of my Grandma and she wouldn’t blink. It seemed to be divorced from the technical sense completely when I was a kid, already.

[Ike_Witt]

@The_Second_Stone

Specific as in “up the butt”, the kind that gets [snip] Santorum so worked up.

Now the statement is true on a couple of levels.

[jane_moces]

so im clear on the casual usage of ‘bugger’ as pretty widespread and generally not at all sexual (despite the etymological origins of the word). though i do think its a bit shady to use the word in an ad campaign.

while im not a big fan of the expression, i dont find its use terribly off-putting.

can we clarify if buggery:

is simply a (coarse) mechanical descriptor of the act of anal sex

or

implicitly infers a negative judgement about anal sex ie its immoral/illegal/unnatural

??

[Chefguy]

@The_Second_Stone

It is a specific type of rape, so, yes, the term is derogatory. Specific as in “up the butt”, the kind that gets Rick Santorum so worked up.

It will soon be revealed that Santorum buggers squirrels.

[SciFiSam]

@jane_moces

so im clear on the casual usage of ‘bugger’ as pretty widespread and generally not at all sexual (despite the etymological origins of the word). though i do think its a bit shady to use the word in an ad campaign.

while im not a big fan of the expression, i dont find its use terribly off-putting.

can we clarify if buggery:

is simply a (coarse) mechanical descriptor of the act of anal sex

or

implicitly infers a negative judgement about anal sex ie its immoral/illegal/unnatural

??

What about the stuff in your OP about referring to gay people as ‘buggers’? Do you know anyone who actually does that?

[Drunky_Smurf]

@Chefguy

It will soon be revealed that Santorum buggers squirrels.

Maybe you should keep your fantasies to yourself.

[panache45]

@The_Second_Stone

It is a specific type of rape, so, yes, the term is derogatory. Specific as in “up the butt”, the kind that gets Rick Santorum so worked up.

Interesting, how some people assume we’re talking about rape.

[jane_moces]

@SciFiSam

What about the stuff in your OP about referring to gay people as ‘buggers’? Do you know anyone who actually does that?

i should have written ‘buggerERs’ in my OP. apologies!

thankfully, its not a term i hear with any frequency but here is the first post that triggered me:
from visajourney.com (an AWESOME resource for information about immigrating to the US)

Gov. Rick Snyder signs domestic partner benefits ban into law

im mr and mrs and the bigot is… well thats more obvious.

its worth clicking on the link just to see the photos of his belarussian wife, who evidently has a thing for apples. <3.

[Lust4Life]

@aceplace57

I prefer bugger as a term than sodomize. Fudge Packer is the coarse terminology.

There are times bugger is the appropriate term. For example in discussing the pedo at Penn State, he buggered those boys. If you prefer to say he sodomized them that’s ok too. I just prefer the first word. Either way, it was a heinous crime.

I’m surprised at your husbands reaction.

As a Brit, the term sounds a bit dated, but people still use it, sometimes as a mild curse word, suitable for use in front of children.
As in "Oh bugger I’ve left the stove on ", its connection with anal sex being more or less non existant now.

And its also used by good mates as an affectionate greeting, as in how are you ,you old bugger/F*****/C*** ?

[Irishman]

@jane_moces

i cant figure out if the noun ‘buggery’ or the verb ‘to bugger’ is simply antiquated terminology that is harmless or if in there is a negative connotation.

You for got the poll option: “How should I know, I’m not British.”

@jane_moces

also, is there a cultural difference between the us and the uk?

Yes, in that “buggery” and “buggerer” and generally “bugger” are not used in the US. At least not by people who aren’t Anglophiles. The closest would be a dismissive statement about a child “the little bugger”, which, at least to my impression, has nothing to do with the UK usage and is a reference to the kid bugging you.

@panache45

Interesting, how some people assume we’re talking about rape.

Well, that is one of the questions. Does it refer to anal rape? Or any form of anal sex?

[Neidhart]

Only in the UK. Or, I suppose, Ireland.

[jane_moces]

@jane_moces

its worth clicking on the link just to see the photos of his belarussian wife, who evidently has a thing for apples. <3.

of course, after months and months of having to look at the weird pictures of his wife, he changed it. its still creepy and does illustrate the importance of eyebrows.

and as an update, i did submit a complaint, which was very promptly dealt with (postings removed) and i will now report any further hate speech as it occurs.

its not that i begrudged him his opinion, its that he purposefully used language that was degrading and disrespectful of gay people. not something i am willing to let fly if there is anything about it that i can do.

thanks for the help. though to be honest, i STILL dont feel like a consensus was reached as to the meaning of BUGGERY.

though the poll shows that most people think its derogatory, that doesnt mean that it is. (even though i agree! its not okay!)

[SciFiSam]

@Lust4Life

I’m surprised at your husbands reaction.

As a Brit, the term sounds a bit dated, but people still use it, sometimes as a mild curse word, suitable for use in front of children.
As in "Oh bugger I’ve left the stove on ", its connection with anal sex being more or less non existant now.

And its also used by good mates as an affectionate greeting, as in how are you ,you old bugger/F*****/C*** ?

But if it’s used a word for gay men, then there definitely is a connection with anal sex.

@jane_moces

of course, after months and months of having to look at the weird pictures of his wife, he changed it. its still creepy and does illustrate the importance of eyebrows.

and as an update, i did submit a complaint, which was very promptly dealt with (postings removed) and i will now report any further hate speech as it occurs.

its not that i begrudged him his opinion, its that he purposefully used language that was degrading and disrespectful of gay people. not something i am willing to let fly if there is anything about it that i can do.

thanks for the help. though to be honest, i STILL dont feel like a consensus was reached as to the meaning of BUGGERY.

though the poll shows that most people think its derogatory, that doesnt mean that it is. (even though i agree! its not okay!)

OK, I see. Yeah, in that context it’s offensive, and is intended to be.

I think the poll will have some people voting about the word buggery and some about describing gay men as buggers/buggerers. Different questions.

[drbhoneydew]

It depends on the context. It’s similar to bloody in that the perceived level of swearing can be quite fine grained - “It’s all gone to buggery” is generally a lot milder than “Damn it all to buggery”. And in phrases such as “playing silly buggers” it is so inoffensive as to class it as a different word that happens to sound and be spelled the same.

I was listening to a radio programme a while back featuring some archive recordings or reenactments of House of Lords debates on legislation around homosexual practices. If memory serves, the debates were either in the late 60s (decriminalisation) or late 80s (Section 28). The sheer venom that was put into phrases like “buggers’ clubs” by some peer or other was comparable to the force that nigger still carries. You don’t hear the word used with the same vitriol these days (in fact that is the only time I have), but it is recent enough to understand how some people regard it as very offensive and derogatory.

[si_blakely]

@SciFiSam

ETA: Ah, it’s an Aussie ad. Point still stands.

@penultima_thule

Also I stuffed up my dates, the Saatchi & Saatchi ad was 1999.
Bugger.

The Toyota Bugger ad was originally filmed and broadcast in NZ (I’m guessing you linked to the later Aussie variant) as a replacement for the Barry Crump/Scotty Toyota Hilux ad series (also brilliant ads).

There was some controversy at the time (the ad was banned, then made post-watershed), with a discussion in NZ on whether “bugger” was appropriate language (particularly pre-watershed). In the end, bugger was judged by public opinion to nothing more than a mild expostulation.

Si

[kferr]

@penultima_thule

Interesting story from this side of the puddle.

For as long as I can remember bugger was only used infrequently as a coarse profanity, usually close to it’s context.

Until 2007. When, in what can only be an inspired piece of scripting, Toyota used it in an advertising campaign for the Toyota Hilux.

There are only 9 words used in the ad, of which 6 are “bugger”.

The profanity that came in from the cold. The word’s now essentially destigmatised, now being used as used as an equivalent of “shit”, or “merde”.

That Toyota ad is great! It reminds me of this Volkswagen ‘bollocks’ ad

[mister_nyx]

I don’t have any real strong opinion, being American, but I’d say that if you’re using it in a context where you’re describing any particular sex act or someone you assume engages in that sex act, it’s probably going to make people uncomfortable, since to those of us who know history it brings to mind the aforementioned oppressive laws against “buggery”.

But something like “oh bugger” or the “Buggre Alle This Bible” any connection to its original sense seems so tenuous that I can’t imagine anyone caring. Maybe Bulgarians do, though, since that’s the original origin of the word.