Otto, since you can't debate I'll let you swear more here

Background
I am in a debate about using the word “gay” as lame or stupid. Some suggest they find the usage offensive. I offer that I associate with homosexuals who don’t. So, what I was seeking was some sort of resolution on the matter. If a large number of people really couldn’t remove the “homosexual” idea from “gay” when it is used as “lame” or “stupid” then I would certainly withdraw both my argument and, in fact, my usage.

It is a sensitive topic. I can recognize that. Perhaps that is why I am adamant about ferreting out the matter.

Then along comes Otto. Truthfully he was in there talking about the matter with another poster before he rounded on me, out of the blue, with the following comment:

One, you are being an ill-mannered lout.

Two, if I KNEW it was offensive to so many people I wouldn’t be pressing the issue since that is exactly the question I was asking: do a great many people find the word used that way offensive? Your second-rate neural connections must prohibit reading comprehension after a sufficient level of abstraction is achieved, because otherwise you would know that.

Three, merely stating “A great many people find it offensive” does not convince me. If it did I would be hangin out in MPSISMS or IMHO. Instead I like GD and GQ where people usually support an argument with facts, reason, or both. You have supplied neither. In fact, your post leads me to wonder if you have the ability to use reason or recognize facts at all.

Four, I am not asking permission to use the word in the manner I prescribe. If you could read at a second grade level you would see that I already use the word that way. I do not need permission to do this. What I was hoping for was a reason I shouldn’t use it. I outlined what I would accept as proof. In this case, it was some source stating that a recognized portion of the gay community was offended by this usage. Since I realized that such a comment might be non-existent and thus my argument not falsifiable, I then reasoned that one might equate the impression of “homosexual” and “stupid” in the use of gay if the majority of people were homophobic. I even mentioned that my statistics are weak and so I didn’t need a scientific journal. As long as it wasn’t the National Enquirer I would have been satisfied. I don’t think you even have the perspicacity to read the National Enquirer, though I suppose I may be able to grant you the ability to discern a rudimentary context from their varied pictures. I really didn’t expect supporting comment one way or the other from you, but I was at least hoping for you to get a grip on life and debate the matter.

While this is perhaps true, it would certainly convince me why people in general would equate “homosexual” and “stupid” in the use of the word and I would be convinced that, though I don’t mean it to harm in any way the majority of people do mean it to offend. And so I would stop using it. Which is your desired goal, I suppose, apart from trying to cut me a new asshole with your baby teeth (and being completely unsuccessful at both).

I offered at least two paths to aid in my understanding of the offensiveness of the word in the general case. Since this isn’t GD but is the PIT I won’t present other facets of my argument here.

In closing
You shame yourself and are an embarrassment to the sensitivity you claim to profess. I find your presence in that thread more distasteful than me asking for a new perpective on a sensitive topic. I find your understanding of what I am asking for to quantitatively and qualitatively empty. Your attitude does not match the behavior a person attempting to provide understanding or reach a reasoned conclusion, nonetheless possess one to begin with. In short, you have demonstrated most successfully that you are an idiot and an asshole.

Poor pitiful picked-upon pet. Sorry, I didn’t realize that I wasn’t allwoed to respond to anyone who posts.

One, calling an ill-mannered lout an ill-mannered lout is not in itself ill-mannered.

Since a great many people IN THE THREAD find the usage offensive, and since those people spanned the sexuality gamut, it doesn’t strike me as that great a leap in logic to figure out that yes, a great many people find it offensive. Let’s use some numbers. Current US population is approximately 275 million. Let’s be conservative and set the percentage of homosexuals at 5%. That’s 13.75 million. Let’s conservatively estimate the percentage of gay people who find the usage offensive at 10%. That would put the number at 1.375 million people. Which is a fucking hell of a lot of people.

Your hiding behing this ridiculous “I want to know how many people find it offensive before I will consider not insulting people” line is utter bullshit, and if you had a shred of intellectual honesty you’d admit it.

Transplanting from the previous thread, you said

I’m curious as to which studies you examined to make the determination that these words are “generally considered offensive.” I’ve never seen such a study, and I can think of any number of instances where neither “faggot” nor “nigger” would be considered offensive. This takes us into in-group vs out-group theory, which is not properly the purpose of this thread and is probably beyond your limited capacity anyway.

Since I doubt that you consulted any peer-reviewed literature before deciding that cuss words and the like are "offensive generally, demanding such evidence regarding the offensiveness of using the word “gay” to mean “stupid” strikes me as disingenuous at best and at worst as another indicator that you’re full of shit.

Oh nice. So you not only acknowledge that the usage is insulting, you acknowledge that it is so highly insulting that you restrict your use of it to the same level you restrict what is commonly thought of as one of the most profane words in the English language.

The truth doesn’t convince you? And why should you need convincing at all, since you have now repeatedly admitted that you know the usage is offensive.

You’ve provided yourself with one several times already. You admit that it can be offensive.

Bullshit, and again I say bullshit. You could be presented with signed affidavits from every homosexual on the planet save one and you’d hold up that last one and say “See? It’s not offensive!” And a recognized portion of the gay community has already told you that they are offended. They posted in the original GD thread. You either were too stupid to understand or you just don’t care.

Oh, so now it’s not that people might be offended by it but that people might mean it to offend? Make up what there is of your mind, please.

In closing
Your closing comments mean nothing to me, because they come from a liar, an idiot and a moron. Your mouthed pieties about how you don’t mean to offend ring hollow in the face of the fact that you obviously either mean to offend or you don’t care that you do. If you really mean not to offend, the one best way to do it is to simply stop using the word “gay” to mean “stupid.” You have irrefutable proof that there are at least several people who do find it offensive, and as this is an anonymous message board, you have no way of knowing that the next time you say it, one of us won’t be standing next to you. And honey? Trust me, I want nothing to do with your asshole.

Were this the case then one would assume that, had one black person just called another black person a “nigger” in a jovial manner that it must be ok for you to do so. This is an indeterminate case. My experience from working in housing projects would say that it, in fact, would not go over well. You are welcome to experiment, however, in an attempt to lend some credence to the idea that returning an insult is not, in fact, considered rude behavior.

Your total inability to grasp context is utterly amazing. I restrict its usage in the same way I restrict other words which are not generally accepted. “Fuck” is an example of one such word. You seem to be an otherwise reasonable fellow. It is a shame you cannot keep that up in the face of a topic that you seem to take personally.

I am unaware of how to even respond to such a total evasion.

No. You couldn’t have possibly understood what I said. I said I was reserving my judgement on the word based on what other people felt about it regardless of my own opinion on the matter. You are so fucking thick! However:

I knew taking it to the pit might get it somewhere. Perhaps if you placed such reasonable arguments in GD there wouldn’t be a problem. That is a rather persuasive piece of, er, suggestion. It is a huge shame it takes insults to get any bit of reason out of you on the topic.

Perhaps you would care to address my other questions in the debate thread, one of which was centered around why only the negative side would have equalized context and not the other usage of “gay” as happy. I would be very interested to hear your opinions on that provided you, for a brief shining moment, get your head out of your ass.

Perhaps you would also consider addressing the issue of why using “lame” as “stupid” doesn’t offend the handicapped, or why using “blakc” for “bad/evil” doesn’t cause blacks to rise up in arms. That is, why is this usage so special?

But I suppose you’e probably taxed your brain enough already in having to squeeze the tiniest bit of thought into a post. Have some Gatorade to help replaced the electrolytes. You may rest easy by knowing you have managed to successfully stopped one person from using “gay” as “lame.” Congratulations. And it only took a small passage without swearing at me! I’d say “imagine that” but for fear it will send you into a frothing mental loop from which no reasoned thought could escape.

Dude, when I was a more regular poster here I tried arguing that exact same line, I-Got-Hammered. If I were you, I’d give up. Context is just too difficult to explain to some people.

Actually I once saw a website talking about a rally to use lame as a positive thing. And I have also seen black people offended by the idea that black=“evil”.

I said

I said pretty much exactly the same thing in the GD thread, but without using specific numbers. You found it unpersuasive. Now, with the addition of completely and totally fabricated numbers, you find it at least somewhat persuasive? Knowing that several actual people that you interact with daily find it offensive makes no difference, but that it would bother a few million made up people makes you stop and think? What the fuck is wrong with you?

I have no personal experience with either situation, being neither a person of color nor disabled. I do know that many disabled people do not like words like “crippled” when applied to them but whether they are offended by “lame” equalling “stupid” has not come up. I will ask the disabled people I know to see what they think. “Black” strikes me as having a longer history in English of meaning “evil” than it does as a reference to a skin color or an ethnicity.

Oh, you’re so EVOLVED now. And it apparently took your being sworn at to get you to pay attention, as the same basic statements made without insults made no impression on that mass of matter referred to in jest as your brain.

Actually, you are almost correct. I certainly could infer that if the majority of SDMB posters (whose opinions on sexualtiy usually vary greatly) felt the usage was offensive that it would indicate that it was offensive on a broader scale. Though I do like playing Devil’s Advocate, I’m not about to destroy any particular argument of mine because no one else can do it without appealing to emotion in a reasoned debate.

Secondly, the fact that you made up numbers wasn’t the issue. The issue was that you set a method for me to follow to appreciate your reasoning. That you used numbers which are probably a little low given anecdotal evidence certainly helped as well.

It is your job to support your arguments against someone else’s. One of my arguments was about the ability to use “gay” without offending people. I was wrong on that. I knew I was wrong after a little thought on the matter given the resistence I faced. Were this a bar or a pool hall that would have been enough. This board has higher standards, as do many of the posters. If I present a reasoned argument in some way it is generally the case in GD that posters who disagree do so by applying reasoning to the points of contention.

You didn’t do that. In that way, in this place, I have no respect or wish to respect that argument. Because I actually do care about the topic, I asked for a reasoned response instead of just ignoring your petulence.

I hope I have demonstrated that this is incorrect.