Gay Dopers: A poll

In My Humble Opinion
1

Hmmm how to explain this…

Is the word “Gay” offensive? I don’t mean like “He’s gay” or “Mondays are Gay Night at Club Fun” or “bla bla bla Gay Community bla bla…” or something like that.

I mean the use of the word “gay” as an all purpose, unrelated (unrelated to anything homosexual, I mean), free flowing expletive to describe something…

Like, “Goddamn, this is so gay”
or “Don’t do that. That’s so gay”
… man examples are hard to find.

But the thing is, I will use the word gay for almost anything. And it’s in no way comparing something to a person who is gay, or to something a gay person would like or would do. Crap this question is harder to articulate than I thought.

I can’t be the only person who talks like this. I will call something “gay” for the same reasons that I would call something “weak”. Like, “This is so weak”. It’s interchangable to me. But I use gay more often.

Does anyone have any clue to what I’m describing? I use the word all the time without even thinking about it. Kinda like throwing in random “fucks” and “fuckings”. If something is insufficient, inefficient, uncooperative, annoying, wrong, not working, etc, I would just call it “gay”.
I’d say something like, “Our policy is so gay. This doesn’t even make sense. Instead, why don’t we…”

Or if a party was dead, or a bar was empty and we weren’t having any fun at an event or something. I’d say “Man this is gay, let’s go” If I thought a movie was ‘cheesy’ or stupid, I’d call it gay.

Anyway, if more clarification is needed, I’ll try. But basically that’s what I’m describing. So if we were talking and you heard me use “gay” in this manner, would you find it offensive? Does the word itself matter? Even if it’s used in an unrelated way and it’s obvious from the sentence that it’s not an insult or a comparison to a gay person. Or would it come off to you as a personal insult no matter what.

I think this is a good example:
Say you, me and a mutual friend were sitting down talking about some concert or something. And the conversation goes a little like this:

Friend: Wow. That sounds like a lot of fun. Where’s this place at?
Me: Downtown by the river, next to the college.
Friend: Oh, I have no idea how to get there.
You: It’s easy. Just take the interstate to 4th street. Take a left on 8th ave, then go around the park. And you’ll see it on your right.
Me: No, that’s gay. That would take forever with traffic. Use the expressway and then get off right at the park. It’s much faster.

Now would that stand out to you? Would you notice? Would it offend you? Does the context the word is used in matter at all, or is it just outright offensive to you for me to use that word in that manner.
Or does it not fucking matter one way or the other? Like no big deal?

2

Yes. I’d probably wince.

A little. Mostly it would just make me think that the person who said it is extremely immature and would probably dissuade me from talking to them.

No, context doesn’t really matter (except in obvious cases like the ‘he’s gay’ stuff you mentioned earlier). Using “gay” in a pejorative sense isn’t divorced from homosexuality in my mind no matter how much it might be in the mind of whoever says it.

3

It ranks right up there with substituting it with “retarded”. I’m not offended but I’m not impressed either. A friend of a friend used to say “That is SO straight”. As a way of twisting it around. :rolleyes:

4

I use it, too, Bear. I’ve toned it down a LOT, but there are still some occasions where it slips out.

My boss is gay, so I really have been trying never to say it. I think I’ve only ever said it in front of her once, and she didn’t really notice I don’t think.

5

Change the word “gay” to “Jewish” or “Black”.

Now…use the same sentence.

How does the sentence sound now? If it makes you feel like a bigot when you say the sentence using those words, then perhaps you are not using the word “gay” as innocently as you think you are.

And would you say that sentence in front of a Jewish or Black friend?

It may seem harmless fun to you, but to that closeted Gay/Lesbian friend in the crowd, it is a subtle warning that they are not, nor never will, fit into your group. Make ya feel better?

6

Yeah, not offended, just put off. My little brother is 13 and that’s his big thing. That game is gay. That movie is gay. That car…, etc. I keep trying to tell him that not only do inanimate objects not have sexual preferences, something being gay isn’t necessarily a bad thing. He continues to understand neither of these, which is why I have not come out to him yet.

7

We’ve discussed this in other threads, and yes, it’s offensive and inexusible.

Try substituting “Jewish” or “African-American” or “Asian” or “Christian” or “Female,” then ask those people whether they’re offended. Then try explaining to them that you don’t really mean **them **when you use the word, and see how far you get.

The bottom line is that you’re saying a lot more about yourself than you’re saying about me.

8

I assume the same goes for queer? I ask because it is a common to use the word “queer” as a verb meaning to thwart or ruin in a phrase like “queer the deal.” (e.g. “We were going to close on the sale of the property, but the home inspector found traces of mercury in the soil and it queered the deal.”) It really has nothing to do with sexuality. Let me know, I don’t want to offend.
As for the OP, I think “gay” is often used to refer to an embarassing uncoolness that is in some way immasculating, and is therefore derogatory to the greater gay population.

9

I’m sorry - I just noticed this is supposed to be for gay dopers, and I jumped in here.

Anyway, I will continue to curb the habit until it’s entirely gone.

10

does it make a difference that the word gay began as slang and is really more akin to “black” than African American? African-American, Asian, Jewish, etc., all pretty much have only one meaning whereas the words gay and black have multiple meanings. I have a black telephone, a bad day in the stock market was reffered to as Black Monday, a vermin-borne virus was known as the Black Plague and so on. Can “gay” have a use outside of sexual orientation, just as “black” does?*

  • I am fully aware that many African-Americans consider the term “black” derogitory. I am equal aware that many do not and in fact prefer the term. I am not trying to offend.
11

:smack: me too, sorry. not gay, just curious (about the answer :smiley: ), will continue to lurk.

12

If this phrase came from a person whom you speak to often and you already know he’s intelligent, mature and not homophobic or hateful towards gays, how would that effect you? I could see where you’d wince. But would you call him on it? Would you tell him that it bothers you and you don’t like it? Would you just shrug it? Would it be a big deal?
I’m talking about a guy who you know has no problem dancing with a guy, chilling at a gay bar or flirting with gay men. Do you think you’d say something to him? Does it offend you that much?

Same person, same question. And even more importantly, would you be put off from admitting you’re gay to that same person? If a person talked about some fun he’s had at gay bars, you’ve watched him comfortably flirt with other gay men, you know he’s not gay though, and you happen to hear him refer to things that frustrate him as “gay”. Would you be put off from admitting you were gay to him? Would you be concerned about him? As in, would you think he might hate you because he uses that word in that manner?

… And I’m not trying to pull that ‘ole “I’m not racist because I’ve had black people in my house and three black friends” crap. I’m just trying to set a specific scenario to get a full understanding on others’ points of view.

Crap. Yeah, I do that too. Gay and Retarded seem to be interchangable. I know people get bent out of shape about popular use of “retarded”, but I think they have less of a case than people offended by “gay”. And I don’t normally associate with people who are that sensitive, nor would I care to appease them.

That’s all for now. I appreciate everyone’s input. Please keep it your opinions coming. I need to get ready for work, but I’ll have comments later for DMark and panache45. Thanks guys.

13

[QUOTE=wiggumpuppy]
Can “gay” have a use outside of sexual orientation, just as “black” does?

[QUOTE]
Good question. And I’d really like to think that it does.
Well… I KNOW it does in my mind. And I’m seeing that it doesn’t in the minds of others.
However, what I’d like to know:
If, in your mind, there is no difference and “gay” always refers to homosexuality. Can you accept that in another person’s mind, this is not the case. Can you tell based on usage and your knowledge of the person, that they’re not insulting homosexuality?

Or, is it really as inexcusable as panache45 suggests?

And for now I’ll just say that I disagree with the “susbstitue Asian, Chinese, Dutch, African” or something like that.
If I substituted one of those words, it wouldn’t make me sound like a bigot. It would make me sound like an idiot. The sentence would make no sense and would communicate no message to the receipient.
“This new compass we were issued is so gay” communicates a message.
“This new compass we were issued is so African-American” does not communicate a message.

Like it or not, “gay” has developed its own slang meaning that-- at least to me-- is completely independant of its definition in regards to sexuality.
Someone can turn red without becoming a communist.

I dunno. . . to me “context” is so much more important. For instance, I’ve heard the following two sentence (Actually recently):

“… now you guys gots yourselves a great team. I can tell. Now… you got a gay guy, but that’s okay…”

“These new uniforms are so gay! They’re more expensive, for one. And plus. . .”

Here’s two examples of someone using the word “gay” and not trying to be offensive. Two examples of a person ignorantly thinking he wasn’t offending anyone…
I find the first sentence EXTREMELY offensive.

If in the second sentence, the complaint had to do with flamboyant colors, lace instead of buttons, and the sentence after it was something like “Now we’ll all look like those fucking faggots”. Then I would find that offensive. But in that sentence, “gay” obviously doesn’t have that meaning.

14

At best using gay as a pejorative is extremely immature. The best examples are the kids on South Park, particularly Cartman who doesn’t even understand half the profanity he uses. “Mo-om! Kitty’s bein’ a dildo!” My favorite use was from The Simpsons when Nelson became Lisa’s boyfriend and was ragged on by his buddies, “you kissed a girl, that is so gay.”

15

That was hilarious.

And I want to apologize for my previous post. Though I stand by my statements and I think they are all great points to consider, I turned it into a Debate. That’s not my intention here. I’m not trying to argue about this. This really is supposed to be a poll. I’ve added a specific scenario or two to get even more in depth answers, but this should still stay a Poll.

16

I’m pretty hard to offend, so no. But I might check to make sure you weren’t in your mid-teens.

I’d avoid the expression for this reason, plus that given by Dmark: you’re quite possibly making closeted people uncomfortable.

17

That usage antedated the widespread use of “queer” w.r.t. sexual orientation, and it doesn’t seem to have to do with the sexuality meaning of queer; instead, both came from the original meaning of “strange.” I wouldn’t notice it (unless someone was, like, obviously using it to get a rise out of me or something…)

But it’s not, Blanche, it’s not. Unlike above, if “gay” had nothing to do with sexuality, they wouldn’t have started using it for this meaning. The reason they’re calling things “so gay” is because of gay people. Whether this is a conscious association anymore or not is not relevant; it’s no less offensive than “to jew down the price,” which people can say without realizing they’re referring to Jews.

18

I don’t think it’s divorced in meaning in any way. The slang means gay=bad.

I think people who use ‘that is so gay’ incessantly are childish, immature and… so gay. :smiley:

I’ve known people who use it in the way described below, as a slang term (like when you say SHIT! and you don’t mean feces) but I’ve asked them not to use it and they all understood once they thought about it a bit.

19

No, actually, IME I haven’t had to worry about intelligent people using “gay=bad”. If I had a friend that matched your description, I would probably call him on it, though. (You mentioned the fact that he’s a friend.) A random stranger, I’d probably shrug off.

20

It puts me off a little. I just think it’s a really Bear_Nenno thing to say.