Is Bush or most Americans aware of how hated we are ??

[Rashak_Mani]

@MGibson

You’ve got a point. Even if we could do it all by ourselves it would be much easier if we could work with others to accomplish common goals. Personally I don’t think the United States does all that bad a job of working with other nations to attain goals. While I recognize the importance of foreign attitudes towards the United States those attitudes must take a back seat to what we believe the right thing to do is.

Marc

But is recognizing foreign views, accomplishing common goals and doing “the right thing” incompatible ? Clearly its not… so the notion of “taking a back seat” is wrong. The US used to do a good job actually of it before 2000.

[Johnny_L.A]

Individualism is a fine thing. But there’s also something called “being a good citizen”.

Diplomacy is the art of negotiating with other countries, and the use of tact and skill in dealing with others. Good relations allow diplomacy to work far better than brute force. This is why we should consider the viewpoints of other people and other nations; because being considerate will be more successful than not being considerate. We don’t have to agree on everything, but we need to work within the framework of society to resolve our differences.

[smiling_bandit]

A double standard? Or is this a case of ‘do as I say, not as I do’?

Not at all. France, in my opinion, has repeatedly shown that it stands for nothing save its own enrichment, regardless of the morality of its action. I condemned it not for hanging out with China but for demonstrating militarily against Taiwan, and aligning themselves against the existance of a functional free society.

[jjimm]

@smiling bandit

Not at all. France, in my opinion, has repeatedly shown that it stands for nothing save its own enrichment, regardless of the morality of its action. I condemned it not for hanging out with China but for demonstrating militarily against Taiwan, and aligning themselves against the existance of a functional free society.

Yet your language seemed additionally to berate France for ‘betraying’ the US, which seems in contradiction of your assertion (I paraphrase) that it’s OK for a country to stand alone, and screw everyone else. Furthermore, similar accusations could be hurled against US foreign policy in this and previous years, regarding accommodation of dictatorships and economic self-interest. Do you get where we might be coming from here? I’m going to guess you still won’t give a shit.

[yojimbo]

Aahh but be honest.

How much do you care about what s/he says

[Odesio]

@Rashak Mani

But is recognizing foreign views, accomplishing common goals and doing “the right thing” incompatible ? Clearly its not… so the notion of “taking a back seat” is wrong. The US used to do a good job actually of it before 2000.

While it isn’t necessarily incompatible it would be naive to assume that it was always compatible. So the notion that foreign views have to take a back seat to doing what we think is right is not wrong. And some folks in this very thread have complained about Kyoto and the land mine ban treaty all of which happened before 2000. So let’s not pretend this all started with Bush.

Marc

[chula]

@Broomstick

Funny how quickly the world has fogotten that Bush was not elected in the normal fashion - the voters split down the middle so closely that it had to be settled by the courts. So, please do realize that every time you state “The people you elected” to an American you have a 50/50 chance of being wrong

I think it’s worth pointing out that only approximately 18% of the U.S. population voted for Bush in 2000. There’s no reason to assume that half of the 64% who didn’t (or couldn’t) vote would have voted for Bush.