Is Detroit the hell-hole I think it is?

I recently moved near Detroit. Everytime I see the local news it seems some other fucked up thing just happened. The other day some guy shot nine people at the fireworks show. Most of the people I have talked to from the area seem to feel Detroit is a horrible city. I have only been there once and I just drove through but what I saw reminded me of the “worst” parts of Chicago and I wasn’t even in the “bad” section. I know Detroit has some serious economic problems and that is never good for a city, but Detroit just seems like a complete hell-hole. Why is Detroit so messed up?

Are there some really nice features of the city that I am missing? Will I still see Detroit as a hell-hole if get to know the city better?

Hey, now, some of my favorite pen-pals were incarcerated in Detroit (well, actually, Plymouth).

IMHO, yes, yes it is.

I have lived here for 5 years now. The 'burbs are ok, but I don’t like Detroit at all. I work with lots of people from Detroit and I have never met a group of people more ignorant or small-minded. They don’t seem to know that there are ways to live other than on welfare or preying on others. I have lived in 7 other cities in 5 other states and Detroit is definitely the loser of the bunch. We were at the fireworks the other night (thankfully, on a roof patio of the building where my husband works, not on the street), but we are unlikely to go again. Last year, we got stuck in downtown traffic after the fireworks and it was horrible–idiots with their radios turned up to deafening levels cutting everyone they could off in traffic to get ahead a few inches.

Well, it’s got (and has always had) some great rock bands.

Detroit=Hell. I’ve lived there twice and despise it.

I can’t think of any other city in the US in which the borders of the city are so clearly demarcated by disrepair. The city cannot possibly continue to support its infrastructure, which was created when hundreds of thousands more people lived there and the auto plants were thriving. They’d be better off IMHO completely razing 2/3 of the city and planting it in soybeans.

When I lived there in the late 80’s, they had new and exciting strains of VD which were unique to the area and had built up immunities to antibiotics. Apparently this rapid progression was due to the sex-for-drugs trade.

Lots of roads are in disrepair. The weather sucks - the sun disappears all winter.

They have Devil’s Night, which was apparently created because there weren’t enough hours in Halloween night to cram in all the requisite vandalism. And most of the locals I met thought that all of the US had Devil’s Night. “No, it’s just you”. A buddy of mine had his pilot’s license and we took a Cessna up that night to watch all the arson. Apparently it was a tame night - only 200 cases of arson were noted, as compared to the expected 400.

There is no good part of Detroit City proper. At least I’ve never seen one. I like Gros Ile, and some of the other suburbs are pretty wealthy. I think I read (but have no cite handy) that Detroit suffered the most extreme “White Flight” of any major city in America.

I’m not belittling the people who live there. Most of them are stuck there, too poor to get away. But life’s too short to move there if you don’t have to.

I’m native, well suburbanite native, I’ve never lived further than 20 miles from downtown.

I go to ‘the city’ once or twice a year. Concerts, theatre and court, those are the only reasons to ever go downtown for me, add in sporting events and pretty much there’s the complete list for the majority of folks I know.

There’re 'bout a kajillion theories on why our downtown failed so much worse than every other and why all the recovery and urban renewal plans have failed…you could read thru them all, or just adapt like the rest of us. Hang in Pontiac, or Royal Oak, or Ann Arbor, or Auburn Hills, whichever suits you, and forget what other major urban cities are like. Easier for us natives who can’t even remember when the D was thriving, but you can catch up to the resignation if you try hard enough! :wink:

My Dad spent his youth in Detroit, where he and his brother used to hitchhike all over the city without a problem. A lot has changed in the 40 years since we moved west. :frowning:

It’s sad but true. Some parts are better than others, but I’ve never encountered any part of Detroit that’s not at least slightly shabby. To be fair, the Devil’s Night arson seems to have died off in recent years, but over all the city is in rough shape. And it’s not just a “white flight” thing; even black people are leaving Detroit if they can. I hear that Southfield is a popular destination for “black flight.”

I can’t offer the least bit of advice about Detroit, but I can talk about the city I live in, Oakland, which is another de-industrialized, working-class city that suffered from a massive white flight.

Let’s just say that if one tried to judge my city through news crime reports and the opinions of nearby suburbanites, I wouldn’t dare to drive through my city later than 3:30 pm at less than 40 MPH. Just say the name: Oakland. What images are brought to your mind? I think our cities share a similar reputation, although people will admit that we have nice weather.

But I live here, and my perceptions are completely different. There are some horrible ghettoes here, but they are far outnumbered by relatively calm urban areas populated with working-class folks and immigrant families who work hard and get along pretty well with one another. We don’t have a lot of sights for outsiders, but we have nice neighborhoods and an extremely diverse population. We don’t have an opera house, but we have a storied history of music history, from blues to funk to hip-hop. Artists can still afford to live in our city.

I’m not trying to ignore the words of **tpayne ** and other people who have lived there, but I can’t imagine that it’s as bad as people from that area make it out to be. You wouldn’t believe what suburbanites in the Bay Area say about Oakland, even though most of them haven’t spent one minute there. If you made friends with some people who lived there, you might get more of an insider’s view and warm up to the city a little bit. Don’t fall prey to the typical American fear of the scary city!

Detroit’s a hard-luck town that hasn’t done a whole lot to help itself out. Its economy almost entirely industrial-based, it’s took a huge hit from the loss of manufacturing jobs in the last two generations. For a variety of reasons, the City proper has not benefited from the types of moves other cities have made (thinking Pittsburgh, Cleveland).

It’s not entirely grim; here are some positive factors (I don’t have cites handy, sorry, so if you choose skepticism I’ll understand):

  • Once known as the City of Beautiful Churches for all its beautiful classical churches.
  • Also once known for its urban forest of giant elm trees which arched over most neighborhood streets creating a beautiful cool oasis in the middle of the city. Sadly, all are gone, victims of Dutch Elm disease.
  • Known in its hey-day as the Arsenal of Democracy. The industrial might of Detroit turned on a dime in WWII to product planes, tanks, jeeps and armaments for the war effort.
  • The largets Arab population outside of the Middle East. Detroit has always been a destination for immigrants looking for opportunity, and to a large extent remains so.
  • Home of the World Champion Detroit Pistons and the WNBA World Champion Detroit Shock – whoo hoo! Both owned by the fellow who also owns the Stanley Cup champion Tampa Bay lightning.
  • For some reason, at one time home to the two biggest Pizza magnates in the US, in the owner of Little Ceasars (who also owns the often-Stanley-Cup-Champion Detroit Red Wings, and the sad-sack-but-improving Detroit Tigers).
  • One of the highest per-capita charitable giving rates in the country
  • Oakland County, one of the highest per-capita income counties in the country, is right next door to the City itself.

Detroit has some very nice high-end neighborhoods of beautiful old mansions in Indian Village and Palmer Park; it has a burgeoning theater and sports district, and the always-popular destination of Greek Town with its restaurants and bars.

All that said, it’s economically depressed, with crumbling infrastructure and massive social problems.
Massive white flight immediately following the riot of 1967 took a lot of tax revenue out of the neighborhoods, and many small businesses out of the economy of the city itself. As has already been pointed out, the black middle class has moved out from the city as well, to close-in suburbs such as Southfield. This leaves in the city only those who cannot or will not move. Some of the will-nots do so out of loyalty to the city and a strong desire to stick it out, but there’s not enough of these folks to bring it back by themselves.

Some possible causes (all IMHO, of course):

  • City Governance - at-large council members with no natural constituencies. The only way to keep their seats is to keep their names in the papers. They spend a lot more time seeking headlines than they do working to improve the city.
  • Twenty years or so under a Mayor (coleman Young) who made his name and kept his office by playing the mainly-black city off against the mainly-white suburbs. Leading to . . .
  • A huge mistrust of the Suburbs, to the extent that Detroiters will oppose initiatives started by, and offers of help extended by non-Detroiters. The school system gets nowhere because “outsiders” brought in to help are distrusted and opposed by heavily-entrenched teachers unions and you’re-not-from-here attitudes from what parents take an interest.
  • Failure to invest in things that attract new businesses. Short-sighted administrations of the past have focused on “big” projects, to the detriment of those amenities that would draw small to medium-sized businesses back to the city.

I could go on, but I fear running up against some SD limits on post size. Suffice it to say, Detroit is a hell-hole if that’s what you expect to find. The city itself is run-down and struggling, but it’s at the center of a vibrant, involved and involving metropolitan area that’s a very nice place to live and be from.

  • Genghis Bob, former Detroiter, now wistful suburbanite

Interesting photo tour through the ruins of the city.

Wow, everyone should check out that link, it’s insane.

I can now attest that, yes, Detroit is a complete hellhole.

Agreed, and I’m hoping not to come across as a troglodyte here, either. As it turns out, I’ve lived in Oakland as well. There are areas there I would not venture through in broad daylight at noon, but there are also other parts of Oakland which are quite nice.

I had forgotten about Detroit’s Greektown, which I did enjoy when I ventured down there. And I’m originally from Cleveland, which experienced the same problems in the 60’s and 70’s but seems to have been a lot more successful recovering from them. I think the note above about Coleman Young and company was right on target - there has to be some differentiating factor, and this seems like a likely candidate.

I just checked out the link.
It’s worse than I guessed at.

And not one remark on the whole site criticises the bad decisions of the US auto industry that helped create the problem. That’s creepy by itsself.

Hm.

What does it say that, after skimming through the images, I thought, “well shit, that doesn’t show how shitty Detroit is, those aren’t all that bad!”

And meant it.

:frowning:

My boyfriend is a west-sider who hasn’t really seen Detroit (especially east-side Detroit). A few weeks ago, we drove down 6 Mi, starting in Livonia, and drove steadily east. I wanted to show him how it is (previously, he laughed at me literally shrieking “there’re manicured lawns and nice businesses on FIVE MILE??” when we were way west-side).

It wasn’t too long before he locked the truck doors and glanced around uneasily. I got to say things like, “there’s a parking lot with razor wire”, “hey, more razor wire!”, “ooh, razor wire wrapped around barbed wire, neat idea!” And then actually had to explain what razor wire is since he didn’t know. The idea that someone didn’t know what razor wire is astounded me.

The things that bothered him the most were the exact things that make me sad, when I think about it. You’ll see buildings that are old and were once absolutely gorgeous. There’s ornate stonework, decorative carvings, beautiful tile patterns… but the building is falling apart, all the windows are smashed in, there’s graffiti covering the outside walls, and you can see that most likely, a fire had been set long ago, so the inside is all burned cinders, held up by the once fabulous stonework. Just going down 6 Mi/McNichols, we saw dozens of these (just down one street).

The worst was many of the neighborhoods. I lost count of the number of times I heard him say softly, “oh my God”, “daaaamn”, and the like. You see old houses that would be perfectly nice if they had been taken care of. But no. The wood siding on the outside is rotting away, with at least half of the paint peeled off. The roof is probably starting to sink/cave in a bit. There were several garages we saw that had a distinct lean to them. There were some houses that had actual holes in the roof or outside walls. And around these houses were cars, or people sitting on the porch or around the yard. People live in these horrible houses that I honestly would not trust to hold up in a strong wind.

We drove down I-94 on my side of town, going “south” (technically west), and I told him, “when we get to where 94 crests, you’ll get a view of downtown Detroit. It is the most magnificently depressing sights you’ll ever see.” After seeing all the large factory buildings abandoned, decaying, windows smashed, and the overall decay of the city set against a dreary grey sky, he knew what I meant.

When we drove back to his side of town, I said, “now do you see why I was so amazed at 5 Mile looking nice and manicured around here?”

He nodded.

You can tell by looking at a selected view of a series of photos of abandoned industrial locations that the city is a hellhole?

Interesting powers you wield.

Without trying to make any indefensible (and silly) claims about a “vibrant” Detroit, I will point out a few counter-demonstrations:
Several of my former classmates have been leading nice, quiet, white midlle-class lives in various parts of Detroit for over 30 years and have felt no need to flee to the suburbs or put iron bars on their windows, or lead lives of desperation. (I note the “white” aspect only because I only had two black classmates, one of whom became a Catholic priest and the other moved out of the area.)

The area I last lived in Detroit was, indeed, a slum when I lived there. A recent drive past my old apartment building revealed that most of the surrounding dilapidated houses had been torn down–replaced by new condominiums, shopping plazas, and a park.

The Seven Sisters (power plant) featured prominently in the “ruins of Detroit” sequence in the linked website, above, was a landmark and was destroyed. However, it was obsolete and inefficient (however recognizable) and Detroit Edison replaced it with a more efficient (and cleaner burning) power plant. It did not simply disappear.

Similarly, the “Tour” laments the destruction of two car plants that were replaced by a large GM assembly plant–which sort of ignores that they were not swallowed by the earth, but were replaced by a new, fully functioning, tax paying, assembly plant.

Interestingly, Cleveland State University (aka James A. Rhodes Junior College) and Wayne State University (Detroit) did a joint economic study about four years ago. The looked at the prospects for either starting up or maintaining a business in either of the two cities. Their conclusion was that both cities provided about an equal chance for successful ventures (and that was not a zero chance), but that Cleveland was perceived to be better off than Detroit, despite the evidence that they were equal.


Detroit has a lot of problems, many caused by the auto companies, many self-inflicted, many inflicted by predatory real estate practices or the fears (or memories) of the 1967 riot. (That was 37 years ago!)

However, it is not a hellhole.

I’m moving to Bowling Green, OH and I was stoked about being that close to Hockey Town. I don’t know that I’ll be wanting to go there too often though. :frowning:

I grew up in Windsor, Ontario, and went to College in Livonia, Michigan, so had to commute through Detroit for a few years… And I now live to a city in California, which is attached to Oakland… and there is NO comparison between Detroit and Oakland…

The feeling I always got in Detroit was sadness … No matter where you are in the city, you are always just a few blocks away at the most from destruction and decay… I was always sad seeing the beautiful homes falling to pieces…

But I’ve also always been terribly sad at how Detroit was never able to pick up the pieces after the riots in 67… When I used to go to Detroit - up until the 80’s - there were still huge areas that had been destroyed in the riots that had never been rebuilt…

Coleman Young did some good things I guess - the Renaissance Center, and other monuments downtown, but it’s too bad that Detroit hadn’t tackled the giant gaps all over the city instead…

As a Gay person, I used to go to Woodward and Six mile constantly when the Gay area was still there… and never had any problems… and actually hoped that things might look up… But from what I’ve heard, even the Gay community has for the most part left the city for the suburbs…

Oakland, on the other hand has problems, but there are very few areas anything like things I’ve seen in Detroit… Living 5 minutes from Oakland, I spend ALOT of time there - going to restaurants, visiting my doctor, shopping, visiting friends… and I never get the “decay” vibes like I get in Detroit…

:frowning:

I can tell you this much: if I had the choice between being sent to Detroit, and being tortured after having my head cut off, I know which fate I’d choose.