Do any of you guys know whether Elfish is a real language? You know, what Liv Tyler was speaking in LORD OF THE RINGS?
I’ve heard there are many forms, which one is she saying?
Any personal opinions on which of Tolkien’s made up languages are (qualitatively) the best?
Is it actually possible to “learn” these languages? Is it worth it? Is it difficult to do? Who on earth came up with the idea?
Thanks for any answers.
The two languages are Quenya and Sinda. Just do a search on either word and all sorts of websites will pop up.
I think she was speaking in Quenya, but I’m not sure.
As for learning- I guess; I’ve seen poetry that people have written in it. Don’t think that it’s as complete as a real language, though.
You have to remember that the languages are the core of Tolkien’s creation. Tolkien was a linguist who invented languages as a hobby. Then he invented people to speak the languages. Then he needed a world for them to live in. And then he had to make up stories so that they’d have something to do.
I suppose it’s possible to learn to speak Quenya. I suppose speaking Finnish helps.
There are a lot of people who speak elvish, some on this board. From what I understand, it is actually pretty easy to learn. It has a smaller vocabulary than most “real” languages, for one thing, and being artificial, it tends to be much more logical than organic languages, which get all sorts of bizarre irregular verbs and formalized slang and words borrowed from other languages, all of which can make it a bitch to learn.
As for who “first” came up with the idea, I don’t think there’s an answer for that. Tolkien is arguably the most famous, but he’s hardly unique. A lot of people invent their own languages as a hobby. Luc Besson used to when he was in high school, and ended up using one of them in his movie, The Fifth Element. Apparently, he and Milla Jovovich held conversations in it on the set. And, of course, there is no dearth of people who speak Klingon out there. I suppose you could include Esperanto here, too, although that might get me yelled at by the Esperantists, so I don’t think I will.
Ai! laurië lantar lassi súrinen,
Ah! like gold fall the leaves in the wind,
yéni únótimë ve rámar aldaron!
long years numberless as the wings of trees!
Yéni ve lintë yuldar avánier
The long years have passed like swift draughts
mi oromardi lissë-miruvóreva
of the sweet mead in lofty halls
Andúnë pella, Vardo tellumar
beyond the West, beneath the blue vaults of Varda
nu luini yassen tintilar i eleni
wherein the stars tremble
ómaryo airetári-lírinen.
in the voice of her song, holy and queenly.
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/
for a complete introductory course on all Tolkien’s languages
A very nitpicky hijack:
I seem to recall reading in one of the many forewords to my copy of the LotR trilogy that among Tolkien’s pet peeves was people “fixing” some of the spellings that he’d so painstakingly crafted.
Near the top of the list: It’s elfish, not elvish - D&D lore notwithstanding.
Actually, somebody may jump in here screaming, “This is not a nitpick! It tears at the very fabric of Tolkien’s masterpiece! Yadda-yadda-yadda…” It won’t be me, though.
Here’s a shortened list of JRRT’s invented languages for Middle-earth.
Quenya - the Ancient Tongue (see also Course)
Sindarin - the Noble Tongue
Adûnaic - the Vernacular of Númenor
Westron - the Common Speech
Telerin - the Language of the Sea-Elves
Doriathrin - the Mothertongue of Lúthien
Various Mannish Tongues - the Sadness of Mortal Men?
Nandorin - the Green-elven Tongue
Old Sindarin - between Primitive Elvish and Grey-elven
Ilkorin - a “Lost Tongue”?
Avarin - All Six Words
Khuzdul - the Secret Tongue of the Dwarves
Entish - Say Nothing That Isn’t Worth Saying
Orkish and the Black Speech - Base Language for Base Purposes
Valarin - Like the Glitter of Swords
Primitive Elvish - Where It All Began
here’s a few others he invented outside of the world of Middle-Earth:
Animalic - “crude in the extreme”
Nevbosh - new nonsense
Naffarin - at least we know that “vrú” means ever
BTW, Professor Tolkien hated the word “Elfish” and fought all his adult life with editors and publishers to keep it out of his works. Instead, Tolkien preferred the more melodic “elvish” and “elven,” etc.
Here’s the best website on Tolkien’s languages:
Quadgop, are you sure that all of those are distinct? I’m pretty sure that Westron is the Anglicized name for Adûnaic, and I think that Sindarin was spoken in Doriath.
And what are the six words of Avarin? That sounds like it might even rival Entish and Khuzdul for “unknown language”.
Westron is actually like English in that it borrowed from many different tongues. I believe that Adûnaic and Sindarin were the major contributors (as Anglo-Saxon and French were to English, more or less).
Lúthien’s mothertongue would have probably been either Sindarin, which I believe was the language of most of what became the Lands Beneath the Wave (other than the Noldorin domains, which spoke Quenya), or Valarin, given that Mama Melian was a goldbrickin’ Maia.
Personally, I’ve always preferred Sindarin over Quenya. It has more personality, with the internal sound changes (Amon Ebor (Lonely Mountain), Emyn Nimrais (White Mountains)), and doesn’t sound quite as stilted and persnicketily precise as the Elf-Latin. And besides, A Elbereth Gilthoniel kicks Namárië’s ass…
jayjay
Here’s the summary of Westron from the Ardalambion:
So, Westron and Adûnaic have common roots in the proto-Mannish, and Westron would have been heavily influenced by Adûnaic, but they were separate languages.
I’m still not convinced that Westron and Adûnaic are distinct. After all, what’s the Westron word for “Westron”? Are there any cites from Tolkien, rather than from his fans, about this?
And while we’re at it, what are the cites for Valarin? And who spoke Ilkorin?
Valarin cites: “The making of a lambe [language] is the chief character of an Incarnate,” Pengolodh the sage of Gondolin observed. “The Valar, having arrayed them in this manner, would inevitably during their long sojourn in Arda have made a lambe for themselves” (WJ:397). WJ is War of the Jewels.
“Plainly the effect of Valarin upon Elvish ears was not pleasing.” (WJ:398)
Tolkien’s ideas about the tongue of the Valar changed over time. His original concept was that Valarin was the ultimate ancestor of the Elvish tongues - that Primitive Elvish arose when the Elves attempted to learn Valarin from Oromë at Cuiviénen (see LR:168). This idea was later rejected; in the published Silmarillion, the Elves invented speech on their own before Oromë found them. For a while, the entire concept of a Valian language was abandoned: In 1958, in a letter to Rhona Beare, Tolkien stated that “the Valar had no language of their own, not needing one” (Letters:282). But soon after, in the essay Quendi and Eldar from about 1960, the Valarin language reappeared, though it was now conceived as being very different from the Elvish tongues and most certainly not their ancestor (WJ:397-407). As noted above, Quenyarized Valarin words appear in the published Silmarillion: Ezellohar, Máhanaxar.
More valarin cites at: http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/valarin.htm
Ilkorin: In Tolkien’s older conception, Quenya was the language of the Vanyar (long called “Lindar”) only; the Noldor developed the language that the Etymologies calls “Old Noldorin”, while the tongue of the Teleri that were left in Beleriand evolved into Ilkorin. http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ilkorin.htm
As for Westron and Adunaic, the cite is right there on p. 315 in “Peoples of Middle-earth” about how the languages diverged from one another. Can’t get too much more canon than JRRT’s scribbled manuscripts as presented by his son.
Seriously, go to Ardalambion. It’s well documented there. Or read all 12 volumes of HOMES for an even better idea of the evolution of JRRT’s languages.
Thanks for all the replies, guys and gals.
brad_d says elfish , Qadgop the Mercotan say’s elvish , which is the correct?
It sound like a beautiful language. How long did it take you to learn Qadgop?
I hope so. It actually feels like there is a limited range of sounds with which you can play - much more limited than English - is this true?
Another thing that’s always interested me. Say someone who spoke Quenya or whatnot wanted to ask about your telephone. What would he/she say? Presumably there was no need for those new technological systems as LOTR was set in a distant time, with no such gadgets. Can someone say a sentence in one of the Elvish languages that incorporates this mix of the original language with a “foreign” word? Does the accent change? Is the accent that you use an American/English one? Do people who speak Tolkien languages from different countries (e.g. Spanish/Italians/Americans/Israeli’s etc.) have different accents?
The term is “Elvish.” Tolkien was insistent on not using “Elfish.” Elvish was an invented language. As much of it existed at any time as Tolkien had a chance to come up with it. At no point did he sit down and create a complete dictionary for everything you could want to say in the language. He didn’t, for instance, feel any need to create words for modern inventions not mentioned in his books. If you want to create a word for “telephone” in Elvish, go ahead and do so. It’s just like any natural language, where if you need a new word for something you can create it. The people who have tried speaking Elvish have a pretty standardized pronunciation for the words.
Read the webpage that I mentioned. Carl Hostetter, who created the webpage, and his friends know as much about Elvish as anybody. Quite literally, when Christopher Tolkien (Tolkien’s son who edited his books) has questions about Elvish, he goes to Carl and his friends for answers.
If you are interested in learning Quenya, you can find a complete downloadable course (including exercises), in pdf format, at Ardalambion (one of the best Web pages for learning about Tolkien’s invented languages). The url is http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/index.html
Xavier, I can’t actually speak Quenya, but I have memorized a few phrases and key words. I’m not gifted linguistically, and while I love the history of languages, I have a hard time picking them up and using them.
Wendell, Great site! I’d forgotten all about it!
Ahh, I love the Namarie poem…
Elvish is beautiful but I don’t, right now, have the patience or drive to learn any foreign language. Sigh. But I’ve memorized Namarie and have a clip of JRRT himself (I think) reading it, which I listen to on occassion.
I think you’re supposed to pronounce it with a specific accent–Tolkien has all kinds of pronunciation guides etc. in the backs of his books. Ardalambion is a great place to go for more of that than you’d ever care to learn yourself! 
Sigh…I so want to be an Elf…<goes happily off into geekish dreams>
There are tapes of Tolkien reading from his books. Part of them are of him reading things in Elvish. Do a search at the online bookstores and you should be able to find these tapes for sale.