Take 100 people or so with “forward head posture” (diagnosed by X parameters), and randomly assign them to three groups. Group 1 gets no treatment except maybe for counseling on proper posture. Group 2 gets massage therapy. Group 3 gets chiropractic treatment. All groups are followed for an extended period (X years). At the end of that time they are all evaluated for evidence of postural changes and by MRIs or other appropriate studies for evidence of muscle shortening, osteoporosis, vertebral fusion etc.
Does such a study exist? I haven’t seen it.
Another term for "your science can’t measure my woo is “special pleading”. What it boils down to is an attempt to skirt the rules that apply to all scientific endeavors. Lots of alties have tried it - chiropractors, homeopaths etc. In the end, despite their protests they all point to some limited/flawed science/pseudoscience that they think supports their woo. It gets bizarre when you hear “No one will study my woo because there’s no money in it” (obviously there is, or they wouldn’t be doing it), “Science can’t measure my woo” (it can and has done so) and “Here’s the study(ies) proving I’m right” (nope, sorry they don’t). Methinks you folks are contradicting yourselves.
I was not mocking and belittling science. Far from it. I have a deep and abiding respect for science. I was mocking and belittling you, and for that I apologize. I shouldn’t have done that.
You forgot one.
[ul][li]“Here is a new treatment for such-and-such a disease.”[/li][li]“What evidence do you have that it works better than placebo?”[/li][li]“Your mind is obviously closed, so there is no point in arguing with you.”[/ul][/li]
Regards,
Shodan
You are quite correct that some areas of human knowledge can’t be examined with the scientific method. Other areas can. Medicine is one of the areas that can be tested with double-blind experimentation, and that includes chiropractic and reflexology.
Several things -
[ul][li]Lots of those who claim acupuncture, etc. is “working for them” are being exploited by cheats and frauds who are lying to them and charging money for it. Cheating sick people out of their money is a bad thing, in my opinion. [/li][li]Attributing an outcome to a false theory tends to cause people to use that false theory for their other health problems as well. You go to the chiropractor, he cracks your spine, you recover from whatever it was spontaneously, then he tells you that you need to come in twice a month for adjustments at fifty bucks a pop. Then your child develops asthma and you bring him in for adjustments. [/li][li]“I took Laetrile for my cancer, and I am still alive. Therefore, Laetrile worked for me.” Do you believe that is a valid syllogism?[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]
I can’t disagree with a single thing you said. But by the same token, I can’t disagree with someone who has found something that works for them. Acupuncture didn’t work for you? Great, don’t go back. It seems to work for a coworker, though. I’m not going to pick a fight with her over it.
No, you, through the use of condescension and mocking terms like "“scientismists”, mock science. I think the time for pretending that fake science and real science are on equal terms and that there is some sort of legitimate debate going on is long past-when it comes to solid scientific evidence the “alters” have got nothing. Nothing but rumors, stories and and an overactive persecution complex, that is.
I have a scientist’s empathy, though-I actually care whether a friend is actually being helped, or is being conned. If you knew that a conman was about to swindle a friend out of some money, would you actually sit back and say “As long as my friend is currently happy, everything is just fine.”?
People who sell quack cures don’t merely say “Snake oil worked for me.” They say “Snake oil will work for you.”
I’ve told the anecdote before. Niels Bohr created the first model of the hydrogen atom. A reporter who was interviewing him saw that Bohr had a lucky horseshoe nailed up over his door.
“Surely a scientist like you doesn’t believe in lucky horseshoes?” said the reporter.
Bohr replied “Of course not. However, I am informed that a horseshoe brings you luck whether you believe in it or not.”
The placebo effect only works roughly a third of the time. We need horseshoes for the rest.
Yes, and you are definitely misapplying it. If this was a case of scientists claiming that religion should be scientifically investigated you might have a case, but we are currently talking about scientists insisting that something claiming to be a science be scientifically investigated.
Says the person doing the name calling and misapplication of terms. If FHP is a “thing”(whatever you mean by that) is something that will be found out by scientists properly using the scientific process, not people selling videos touting rumors and stories, or the true believers that accept such at face value.
I was having neck problems (that car crash didn’t help), so I went to a bona fide Physical Therapist (not in Podunk – I went down to the big city, it was part of a hospital n all…).
He got me doing some simple exercises (basically “tuck your chin down a couple of times a day” and “get better posture”). Seems to help. So does a cheap “orthopedic” pillow.
I’m using a laptop, reclining, so I "hunch over"my keyboard less.
The vast majority of Googled links lead to chiropractic sites, and the ones that are trying to sell a process to the visitor describe the symptoms rather dramatically…if not consistently.
You forgot one.
[ul][li]“Here is a new treatment for such-and-such a disease.”[/li][li]“What evidence do you have that it works better than placebo?”[/li][li]“Your mind is obviously closed, so there is no point in arguing with you.”[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]
Oh, there’s plenty more.
“Facts can be manipulated.”
“You’re a pharma shill, aren’t you?”
“It’s natural so it can’t be patented and no one will study it” (“and here are studies showing that it works!”)
“THEY don’t want you to know”
“Here’s a list of irrelevant and outdated quotes from sciency-sounding people which prove my point!”
“Watch this hour-long YouTube video, it’s proof!”