Is Fox News really all that bad?

This was posted in the Stupid Republican thread, but definitely fits here. Fox criticizes Obama for mandating a “girly” new hat for Marines: Obama wants Marines to wear ‘girly’ hats | Fox News.

Linking Obama to a decision that almost certainly happened way below his level? Check!

Acting like a proposal under review is a directive being rammed down the Marines’ throats? Check!

Gratuitous sexism (girly, really)? Check!

Out of nowhere swipe at the French? You bet!

Mention of unrelated controversy related to current admin official, without mentioning that controversy occurred under the previous administration? Double-fucking-check!!

This story crystallized so much Fox crap, it’s just perfect. How would a responsible news organization report this story? Maybe more like this: http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=20673216&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Joe Scarborough, the Joe of MS-NBC’s morning show Morning Joe, is a Republican. Pat Buchanan was a longtime contributor and Steve Schmidt is still a regular on maddow and other shows on the network. Abby Huntsman is a cohost of The Cycle. Michael Steele is also a frequent contributor on the network.

As far as I know, Sally Kohn is the only contributor at Fox News who is a liberal. I don’t believe that any of their hosts are.

I doubt you can prove ‘bias’ in a media outlet as if some kind of hard science question. One of the ‘studies’ I recall about Fox News viewers being ‘misinformed’ (which as has been noted is not really the same as proving the outlet they watch is ‘biased’, anyway) had a question asking people, a couple of years ago, after 2009, whether the US was in a recession. Those who said ‘yes’ were classed ‘misinformed’, since the National Bureau of Economics Research had declared the ‘crash’ related recession as over in June 2009. Please. Very few people answering such a question either way will actually know the NBER’s end date for the recession, and it wasn’t what they were asked. I knew the date but would have answered ‘yes, still recession’, because in the colloquial meaning of the term it still was (and is), the economy sucks, a common sense fact IMO (though reasonable people can disagree the extent partisan differences in policy account for that). People more critical of the current administration are more likely to see it that way, and more likely to watch Fox

Filter out the ‘studies’ which are effectively push polls like that one was, factor in other studies finding for example that Limbaugh’s audience considerably outperformed the general public on a list of strictly factual civics questions (who is the House minority leader, that kind of stuff) then come back with the ‘proof’ which audience is ‘less informed’. 99% likely, a muddle. And don’t forget the big picture back drop. When all the news and punditry has been disseminated and people go to the polls, it’s obviously the Democrats who rely more at the end of the day on poorly educated and informed voters. That’s the system, one person, one vote. But there’s a serious glass house problem when the left gets too wound up about ‘uninformed’ people on the right.

On ‘bias’, I understand that people pretty far to the left don’t view CBS/NBC/ABC/CNN as liberally biased. Those stations’ coverage proceeds on assumptions that real leftist might view as ‘rightist’, ‘corporatist’, ‘too US centric’, etc. But that’s subjective. If you’re further to the right, their operating assumptions appear more liberal. But OTOH here’s AFAIK an undisputed fact: the great majority of reporters and editors from those outlets personally vote Democrat. Again to a real lefty, voting Democrat doesn’t make you a ‘progressive’. But to a Republican, having the news filtered and interpreted for you almost strictly by Democrats could be perceived as a problem, is that so unreasonable?

And that’s where Fox comes from, basically, decades of having the news fed to us (all, left and right) almost exclusively by Democrats working for the ‘prestige media’. That was the business opportunity Ailes identified (which is what it was first and foremost). So indeed Fox is very self conscious in presenting things differently than the traditional ‘almost Democrat voter news people, but trying to be fair’ approach, different style and feel as much as anything else (when did Today etc ever invite on country singers or NASCAR drivers before Fox either? that’s part of it also, different cultural wavelength not just politics per se). And Fox also presents a lot of commentary programming, but not only ‘so do the others’ but the others have followed that model, to a degree, because of the success of Fox. MSNBC, its (few) fans pop a vein hearing it but it’s true, is a mirror image imitation of Fox more than anything else, it’s just not as commercially successful. And CNN has long danced around with various formula’s which are based on targeting Fox infotainment shows (Piers Morgan’s snivelling Limey style liberalism, other personalities sticking with the old ‘I’m a Democrat but I’m being fair’ formula to various degrees, etc). CBS/NBC/ABC OTOH have all kinds of (complete schlock) ‘pure entertainment’ shows to air most of the day, so aren’t really in the same business as CNN, Fox News and MSNBC.

Shepard Smith might conceivably be liberal, but AFAIK he sticks to straight news. Every once in a while I hear about him challenging some particularly outrageous claim by a guest.

Corry El, I am sure since you imply that all of the studies that show Fox News viewers to be less informed or more misinformed that viewers of other media outlets, Comedy shows or nothing at all as having bad methodology, that you would easily be able to debunk all of the several that I have listed several times in this thread.

I’ll wait for you do to that, thanks.

Also, even if Rush Limbaugh listeners polled well, that’s not the issue of this thread, so it’s pretty irrelevant. Fox News is bad not because they are conservative, it’s because they lie. And Rush may not be bad because he lies, but because he’s an asshole.

If I understand you, you’re asking what news non-story was made into a big deal by liberal media? From a cursory knowledge I thought the liberal media handled the Zimmerman affair atrociously by trying to drum up a larger racial divide than was warranted. Politically, it’s hard for me to say. Bush largely sucked as a president and the Iraqi war gave the liberal press an easy (and warranted) target; there was no reason to drum something up.

Which, as far as I can see, proves the point. You’ve just admitted that people who watch FoxNews are more likely to be misinformed. You may well be right is saying that few people will understand what the NBER definition of recession is, but wouldn’t that be true of all people regardless of their media of choice? And if the other “liberal” stations accurately report that the recession is over and FoxNews doesn’t, wouldn’t that again prove the point?

Admittedly, causation has not been established here. It’s entirely possibly that FoxNews caters to those who are already wilfully ignorant. But that’s hardly a recommendation either.

“Obvious” how? You’ve just handwaved away the actual evidence and made a declarative statement based on, what, truthiness?

And their bosses vote Republican. Who do you think sets the agenda?

Yes, because it’s based on the assumption that both sides are the same. The problem isn’t “left news” vs “right news”; it’s “news” vs “stuff they’ve made up”.

None of which says anything about FoxNews’ quality of information, and really just repeats the “they’re all the same” typical right-wing justification for poor behavior in their particular sacred cows. And God forbid that I should defend Piers Morgan, a c**t of a man I’d happily see banished from the airwaves for life, but describing him as having “snivelling Limey style liberalism” is utterly laughable given his “journalistic” background.

I’m hardly a fan of other US-based television news - the British broadcast media are far more reliable (Note: not true of the British print media) and even AJE has decent news (Russia Today, however, is a load of codswallop. Avoid.) but comparing the superficial pablum of CNN, NBC etc with the active firehose of lies that is FoxNews is like comparing a case of acne with the bubonic plague.

Wow, this thread has been going consistently for nearly a year!

FWIW, I am more of the opinion one year later that Fox News is as bad as people say…

Well, scratch that.

Asking a second time what this means.

One’s a noun and the other’s a compound modifier. Duh.

I love when good economic numbers come out, because it gives a great chance to test the hypothesis that Foxnews is not biased. GDP grew at 2.8%. That’s good. Expectations were much lower.

Headlines from around the web:

CNN.com: “Economy perked up over summer”
NBCnews.com: “Economy grows faster than expected during summer”
CBSnews.com: “GDP surprise: Economy grew 2.8 percent in third quarter”
ABCnews.com (from AP): “Stocks Near Records After US Economy Accelerates”
or as Foxnews.com sees it: “Economy stumbling?”

It appears that we can reject the null hypothesis.

Fox News actually posted the story about how the smoking gun of the Big Bang was found. Right on their Facebook page.

Of course this meant that Fox News viewers got to comment. Read 'em and weep:

http://aattp.org/fox-news-reports-actual-science-creationists-go-out-of-their-ever-loving-minds-with-screenshots/

At least not in the generally accepted (by people with WORKING brains) sense of the word. I used to do what some of you do, too - type it out: Fox “News.” Now I don’t even bother putting the word “news” in there. Whenever I feel compelled to refer to that pack of liars, whiners, and hypocrites I refer to them simply as the “Fox Right Wing Propaganda Machine” which, in my view, is exACTly what they are.

I suggest watching Al Jazeera for a little while, if you want a dose of reality experienced by most of the world in as much as a news channel can convey realistically.

Apparently, there was a last minute surge in sign ups for the Affordable Health Care Act. You would know this if you open your browser and sign on to any news site, where it is likely the lead headline. Except Foxnews, which is not reporting this. Though they do have room for no fewer than five bad headlines about the law.

Are you saying that MSNBC admits its liberal bias? I must have missed that announcement.

As for Fox News, it’s bloody good at what it does, it’s usually entertaining and it’s sometimes informative. The other news channels are not very good at what they do, they are rarely entertaining and, like Fox, they are sometimes informative.

I wouldn’t dream of getting my news from one source or even one medium. And I don’t trust any of them fully.

Your statements exhibit a common argumentative fallacy (inadvertently, I’m sure): they are all correct in their individual facts, but by failing to state or acknowledge key information, the overall impression they convey is quite wrong – that impression being that, meh, all news channels have their issues, and Fox is no different. That establishes a false equivalency.

Fox is a news channel like no other. It has an explicit and overriding agenda to be the propaganda arm of the Republican Party, and it has no qualms about falsifying the news to do it, either explicitly or by omission. They have even sued for the legal right to falsify the news. This goes back to the original political machinations of Rupert Murdoch and the recruitment of Republican hatchet man Roger Ailes to run the network. It’s been well documented, for instance, that Ailes every morning would issue the talking points for the day that all “news” anchors would be required to hammer into the viewers’ fertile brains. I’m not even going to bother providing any links as the examples of Fox propagandizing are boundless and have been documented so much and so often that it’s perfectly self-evident to anyone who hasn’t been indoctrinated by the constant bombardment. In short, all news channels have their biases, but they are mostly biased toward the established power base and to the profit motive, and inaccuracies in their news are mostly due to incompetence and random sensationalizing, whereas Fox is fiercely ideological and its lies, misrepresentations, and material omissions are explicitly and deliberately crafted.

It’s often worth watching international news channels, if only for the different perspective; the US news media can be insular and narrowminded at the best of times. AJE is surprisingly good, although their coverage of US internal affairs is a lower priority than Middle Eastern events. I’m told the Arabic version of AJ is more…pointed…in its presentation of world events but have no way of evaluating that.

BBC World is also pretty good although I’ve noticed a decline in quality over the years as funding cuts hit the BBC news division and the (radio) World Service has taken some serious hits as well. My German’s not good enough to do a quality assessment of Deutsche Welle although I’ve heard it’s decent, and sadly I dont’ have access to France 24.

Also sadly, I do have access to Russia Today, which is about as blatant in its propagandizing as FoxNews is, although surprisingly less good at it. I tried to watch it, really I did, but it became fairly obvious that journalistic integrity was not high on their list (and this was long before the current situation in Crimea, for which they’ve ramped it up to 11).

beautifully put, Wolfpup, and this bears repeating