You.
I am saying they are all guilty of the same shit, to different degrees.
I feel like this is getting silly.
Okay, let’s unpack some baggage here.
What significance did this error have? What effect does it have if CNN misreports this? Any effect? Okay, benefit of the doubt, it could have the effect of acting as though there was more violence towards muslims than there really is. Does CNN consistently push this viewpoint, or a similarly pro-muslim viewpoint? I doubt that. However, this is one minor story of a relatively inconsequential (not to diminish the suffering of the victims and their families, but it’s the middle east - this sort of thing happens, and shouldn’t be a huge shocker any more) terrorist attack, and when I go to look at their website now, guess what it says.
“Shattered glass, lifeless bodies: Five dead in Jerusalem synagogue attack”
Let’s just compare that to a recent fox headline.
What was the news here? Well, the extensive investigation by the republican-led house intelligence committee had come to a conclusion and released a report. Contained therein: the clear conclusion that literally none of the political talking points FOX had dredged up over the last two years were accurate. Susan Rice’s intel? Wrong because of the intelligence community getting it wrong. Stand-down order? No such thing. To quote the second paragraph of the AP report:
Now, keep in mind, this is a not a one-off. This is not FOX flubbing the reporting on a case that ultimately didn’t matter. They drove this shit into the ground. They covered this for probably thousands of hours, presenting a persistent and consistent narrative that the Obama administration had somehow failed in Benghazi. And none of it was true. Faced with this, FOX news does not correct itself. It buries the story, and tries to twist the facts to work the way they want it to work. If you read the AP’s report, and then FOX’s report, you get probably the most clear picture you possibly could on the difference between FOX News and real news.
And of course, it’s not just this. You see, there’s something that you seem to be missing. Networks make errors. They fuck up. They make mistakes. Remember Dan Rather’s report on GWB that was bogus? That was a mistake on his part. He fucked up. He was removed from the network, lest it taint their good name. CNN flubbed the reporting on that synagogue. But what FOX does goes beyond that. FOX crafts entire narratives out of whole cloth, inventing and presenting complete, packaged worldviews that are completely bogus. They lie and lie and lie, and these lies are rarely random - they’re all pointing in one direction. They’re all to further the narrative that republicans are good, and democrats are bad. I mean, for example, FOX occasionally gets the letters wrong behind the name of politicians. No biggie. It happens. Except when they fuck it up, it’s always an error that makes a good politician sound like a republican, or a criminal politician look like a democrat! Always, consistently, without fail.
Say what you will about the impartiality of MSNBC, but at least when they fuck up, they apologize. Because they know that their viewerbase has some basic modicum of self-awareness. That the people watching aren’t going to take absolute inane stupidity like the idiots who tune in to watch Fox interview Ann Coulter (and if I have to explain to you why she’s full of shit, then I might get mad).
Again, none of what you’ve said accounts for the clear disparity in viewer knowledge. How is it that FOX viewers consistently score lower than all other news sources on surveys of world affairs? How is it that FOX viewers occasionally score lower than those who watch no news at all? This is possible the best objective measure we can get of how good a network is - what information does it pass on to those who view it. And FOX fails the test spectacularly. It’s one thing if they were the worst news network. But they’re not just the worst. They’re the anti news network. They are worse than no news on many issues. Climate change? FOX will not give you an accurate picture of the science. Benghazi? FOX will lie and lie and lie. Obamacare? Do I even have to say it?
And your comparison is CNN flubbing (and correcting) a report on a terrorist attack in the middle east that had nothing to do with us.
You’re right. This is getting silly. The only way to present your position is to be completely oblivious of the actions of FOX news in the last 15 years.
Seriously. Watch the clip. It’s 5 minutes long and succinctly explains the problem. Also, there’s a transcript, which is almost as good if you don’t want to watch a video.
So you’re saying that they’re equally guilty, but that they’re not equally guilty. Let me refresh your memory:
and
And you also said:
Let me say this again: You have stated that all broadcasters are equally guilty of lying, and you have said that they are not equally guilty. You can’t have it both ways. It’s one or the other.
Both sides are not equally guilty of lying. FOX News has been shown to lie most often. Therefore, FOX News is ‘all that bad’.
In short, you are wrong.
Whatever makes you happy Johnny LA.
BPC
I can’t get past taking your first question seriously. The significance of errors matters when they are not one offs.
Anyway I believe best to leave it at nice to meet you both.
Yes, it does. I agree, it’s a big fuck-up. Just like the incident that led to Dan Rather leaving CNBC. But the problem with FOX is not “FOX makes mistakes”. As I said quite clearly in my post, every network makes mistakes. Most of 'em do a pretty decent job correcting those mistakes when they turn out to be mistakes. FOX makes mistakes too. A disproportionate number of mistakes. All of which would, to a jaded outside observer, seem to further a political narrative that is starkly partisan and staggeringly dishonest. Also, they don’t do much correcting. In fact, in the wake of a massive investigation that indisputably demolished several of their talking points from their own political party, they doubled down on the lie. They didn’t accept that they were wrong, they acted like the report didn’t say anything bad about their stupid fucking conspiracy theories.
Yeah, it matters that CNN got the Synagogue attack so wrong. But does that make CNN a bad news network? Well, if they’re trying to push a narrative that doesn’t gel with reality, it makes them a really bad news network. Can you show a consistent thread of them hiding attacks on Jews, or pretending that life is worse for Muslims than it really is? I’m not convinced that that’s the case, and you’d need to provide me with more than this single, isolated case to demonstrate that. If they are pushing a false narrative like that, then there’s definitely a problem. Then CNN might be in the running for “almost as bad as FOX”. They’d still have the knowledge of their viewers to hold over FOX, but hey, at least they’d be in the same ballpark.
Hey Velocity, do you wanna pick up the torch? After all, you’re a regular here, not a “drop a few posts and leave” kinda guy. Maybe we can get someone to, yanno, actually defend the claim that “everyone else does it”.
(And just for the record, so that I can be completely explicit? I’m not saying it’s insignificant. I’m asking, “how significant is it compared to what we know”. Kind of a difference. It matters if a news network gets something horribly wrong. It matters more if that network gets a lot of things persistently wrong because they’re trying to spin a narrative.)
Guys, I’m going to assume that callander watches a fair bit of FoxNews, so we really are asking too much for him/her to come into a thread and actually use those silly things called “facts” and that silly idea of “perspective”.
It’s almost a self-fulfilling thing here. The more someone watches FoxNews, the less likely they are to apply any kind of filter/logic/skepticism to what they hear, which makes them more likely to continue watching, and believing, FoxNews.
The great irony to me is that you often hear people on the right beseeching the left for being sheep, for following blindly. And yet they blindly follow FoxNews and take what they are fed, never once questioning what they hear. I have a co-worker who is a FoxNews consumer. Every time I challenge him on bringing up whatever their latest spew is, his counter is that MSNBC is the same thing as Foxnews, it’s just for liberals. First off, I don’t think that MSNBC factually lies anywhere near as often as FN, but I can’t say for sure, because I never watch it. I’m about as far to the left as you can be on most issues, and I don’t watch MSNBC.
If we assume that the split in this country is roughly 50/50 right/left, then this is telling:
Q2 2014 Cable News average viewers for Primetime hours
Fox News - 1,588,000
MSNBC - 570,000
Approximately 3 times as many viewers watching Fox.
Anyone watching FoxNews, IMHO, is doing it just beacuse it feels good to be stroked by someone saying exactly what you want to hear. It’s validation to constantly hear from talking heads who say “you are perfectly justified in feeling the way you do, we all feel the same way.” That is just stroking. What it’s not, my friend, is journalism. Journalism is dead.
I do. And I think it’s fair to say that MSNBC’s bias is as far to the left as Fox News’ is to the right. But they don’t make shit up, like Fox does, and they don’t keep pushing narratives that have long since been proved wrong, like Fox does, and they don’t take two seconds out of a five-minute talk completely out of context, and keep insisting that someone believes something ridiculous based on that two seconds, like Fox does.
In my not-so-humble opinion, this is perhaps the problem with this country today. We Americans want simple answers even to the most complex problems. We want instant gratification. We hate things that are hard; and thinking logically, and looking at problems from different angles, are hard. It’s much easier to be told what to think by people who are telling us what we want to hear. We are the archetype that spawned the saying ‘He may not always be right, but he’s never wrong!’
Studies have shown that FOX News lies half of the time. They use these lies to validate their non-thinking, xenophobic viewers.
No, they’re not xenophobic.
You just have to claim they are because you can’t really argue on the points the rightists argue on, and/or you’re so emotionally caught up in your own thing and your own idea about what the other side is saying, which is really a holdover from the 60’s culture changes, that you can’t even hear what they’re saying.
Math is hard, and the world isn’t a magical cupcake where every tiny little problem is fixable. Part of having real ideas is coming to terms with that.
Of course math is hard, FOX did not have a clue that the amount of sun in Germany was less than the USA.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/02/28/1645041/germany-solar-power-fox/
Of course, since powerful corporations made the issue of energy and the environment to be politizised FOX is on the side of disparaging solar power too, it is no wonder that most of their viewers are not aware of the dramatic drop in the price of solar panels.
EdwinAmi would agree if he could not depend on sources like FOX and if he would check other sources… and Amazon.com 
As for the Xenophobic part, I’m in the land of Arpaio, and FOX had to give that birther xenophobe the microphone as a counterpoint to the president’s speech.
Arguing on the points? Hey, there’s a great idea. Why don’t you pick up the torch for every drive-by poster who’s dropped by in this thread to spew “BOTH SIDES DO IT TOO” as though that was a coherent, supportable argument, and offer something, anything, to counter the evidence that FOX is a significantly worse news network than any other comparable American news network?
Fox News is the evidence. Fair and Balanced, 'nuff said.
I would be shocked - shocked - were I to find out that socking is going on in here.
tl;dr 
Let’s refrain from this sort of thing. That Fox engages shills and socks to puff up their purported value is, to the extent that i t can be proven, a legitimate point in this discussion.
Dropping a suggestion that one or more posters in this thread is actually a part of that effort, particularly without any actual evidence that they are violating SDMB rules, is not appropriate.
[ /Moderating ]
(It is not as if any Fox defenders have brought anything credible to the thread or anything remotely like factual support.)
Islam is taking over the U.S.!
Illegal aliens are taking our jobs!
Gay marriage will destroy America!
Blacks riot for no reason!
Europeans are a bunch of Socialists!
Socialists want to turn America into North Korea!
It’s dark, and there are monsters under my bed!