Is Fox News really all that bad?

It’s not a matter of inviting him; Fox is kind of stuck with its own rule about the national polls. However, they did make a late change requiring filing actual FEC financial disclosure forms rather than extensions, which many thought was targeted at Trump, but he surprised them by filing the forms, so he’s in.

What I hope might happen is this: in previous elections, the RNC has orchestrated successful attempts to torpedo front-runners that the establishment GOPers dislike for some reason, e.g. Newt Gingrich. The main control they have over candidates is money.

Trump can afford to run without the GOP’s blessing, and he has the ego to hit back if they try to sabotage him. It would be wonderful if the GOP did undermine him, and he responded with a third-party candidacy, the hugest and classiest third-party candidacy ever, and split the vote among Republicans, allowing an easy Dem win.

The residents of certain states (coughIowaNewHampshirecough) have an outsized influence on the nominating process. Those states have enjoyed that privilege for some time, and fight to keep it. I’ve long thought that the parties should reform the rules to bring more states (and therefore more people) into that early part of the process.[sup]*[/sup] Taking the extra influence away from those states should be a good thing, but then giving it to Fox News isn’t.

  • And when those states complain about losing their special status, the correct response from the party should be “go piss up a rope”.

Just to pick nits, but FOX is not the sole debates host. CNN will host the second debate, and down the line, ABC and CBS will be hosting debates. There are 12 scheduled.

I remember it being sold that way, too, but I’m having trouble finding cites to back it up.

Just read the bill itself. It says that the President can’t use military force unless he first sends a letter to Congress declaring that non-military measures have failed, and that nothing short of war can protect the US from Iraq.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ243/html/PLAW-107publ243.htm

The October 2002 bill did exactly what the anti-war contingent hoped it would do – it scared Saddam enough that he backed down, and allowed UN inspectors back into Iraq. They spent over four months looking at all the sites the CIA had identified as possible WMD sites or factories, along with any other suspicious sites, including the Presidential Palaces. They used helicopters to swoop in on sites without warning, and they used equipment like ground-penetrating radar to ensure there were no hidden rooms or basements.

They found that not only were there no WMDs (other than a few rusty mustard gas shells left over from the 80’s) at any of the sites, but that some of them had clearly been abandoned for years, and that others were totally unsuitable for the purpose —an alleged chemical weapons factory didn’t even have indoor plumbing.

On March 7, 2003, Hans Blix informed the UN Security council that despite some initial foot-dragging, Iraq was now “proactive” in its cooperation, including allowing the destruction of some conventional missiles that flew 110 miles instead of the allowed 93 miles (Iraq is about 6000 miles from the US), that it would just take a few more months to resolve the remaining discrepancies (mostly a lack of documentation when weapons were destroyed), and that the continuing presence of inspectors would make it impossible for Saddam to resume any WMD programs without plenty of warning to the West. In other words, the non-military measures had completely succeeded.

http://www.un.org/depts/unmovic/new/pages/security_council_briefings.asp#7

For reasons I don’t understand, almost nobody acknowledges this four+ month period, when it became KNOWN FOR A FACT that the CIA, whatever its good intentions, had been completely wrong in its conclusions from satellite photos, and informants like “Curveball.” I don’t blame anybody for assuming the worst before the UN inspectors went in, but the Bush Administration continued to insist that Iraq had WMDs months after it became clear that the CIA was wrong, and even today, they keep saying that they acted on their best knowledge at the time, which is absolutely false — the best knowledge after the inspectors went in was that there was no sign of WMD stockpiles, programs, or facilities anywhere in Iraq.

On March 18, 2003, in spite of Hans Blix’s report that the inspections were going great, Bush (as required by the Oct 2002 bill) signed a letter to Congress saying that non-military measures had failed, and nothing short of war could protect the US from Iraq. Bush invaded Iraq the next day. No matter what you think of his artfully crafted speeches about Saddam’s WMDs and connections to Al Qaeda that were clearly designed to mislead but technically fell just short of lying, there is no doubt that he lied, in writing and over his signature, in that letter to Congress.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-1.html

When I said “Iraq War . . .passed” I was posting in a hurry and was not specific on my meaning. The Patriot Act passed Congress with public support. The Iraq War was engaged with massive public support. The AUMF was not really an issue by March, 2003, (aside from providing a fig leaf for GWB as outlined by TonySinclair). There was very little public protest of the war and no organized opposition. It was a very popular war when it opened.

Thank you, TonySinclair.

Bush: Ya hear that? That Blix feller said Iraq is now radioactive! :eek:

I was not responding to you directly. It’s just that your statement made me think ‘Well, of course there was little opposition. It’s for a last resort option!’ Then I wondered if I remembered correctly, so I had to ask. TonySinclair’s account sounds right.

As for the war being ‘very popular’, Americans are easily frightened. We’d just undergone a devastating attack, and Bush, Cheney, Rumpsmelled, and the rest were doing their best to whip up hysteria. I’d put money down that asking the ‘person on the street’ in a red state whether Saddam had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks, most would reply in the affirmative.

Now that I’m thinking about it…
[ul][li]September 2001: Bush vows to get bin Laden ‘dead or alive’.[/li][li]March 2002: ‘I really just don’t spend that much time on him, to be honest with you.’ – George W. Bush[/ul][/li]At least, that’s the way I remember it.

They would have done the same in blue states, because they had their President, Veep, SecDef, and National Security advisor all telling them that he did. And as I said in my previous post, they usually did it in such a way that they were deliberately misleading the public, but were technically telling the truth.

“We know that al Qaeda is in Iraq.”
Kernel of truth: al Qaeda is in the Kurdish territories protected by US fighter jets (the no-fly zone), because both al Qaeda and the Kurds want to overthrow Saddam.

“We know that Iraq has ties with al Qaeda going back ten years.”
Kernel of truth: a lower echelon Iraqi rep had a meeting with a lower echelon AQ rep in the early 90’s, and nothing came of it.

I mean today.

A lot of very staunch supporters of our operations in Iraq have since changed their minds about it. No one likes being lied to, regardless of political affiliation.

Again. Jobs numbers are out this morning. They are solid, but nothing spectacular. Show that the economy is doing all right and continuing in the right direction. Big news for the morning, and every news source has it as their lead story right now.

The Wall Street Journal is factual with the headline: U.S. Economy Adds 215,000 Jobs in July

The New York Times takes a similar just the facts approach: U.S. economy added 215,000 jobs in July; unemployment stays at 5.3%

MSNBC showing it’s lamestream bias: US jobs post solid gains; unemployment flat

Foxnews is taking a decidedly different tact by announcing in the lead bannner: KC AND THE SUNSHINE BAND ROCK THE ‘ALL-AMERICAN SUMMER CONCERT STAGE’

In fairness, they did finally add an article toward the bottom of the page entitled: U.S. Economy Adds Fewer Jobs than Expected in July

We added 215,000 jobs and expectations were 223,000, so I guess that’s technically true, though more, shall we say, legitimate new sources seem to realize that the actual number is about what was expected.

To add to the fun, a little while ago I wanted to see how Fox handled Obama’s emissions reductions announcement for power plants. As expected, it was mostly quotes from Republicans about the sheer disaster it was going to bring. But Fox always manages to exceed expectations, so they cranked it up a notch – they also named several coal companies that had declared bankruptcy “since Obama was elected”. As if the companies self-destructed out of sheer despondency over Obama’s election, before he had even done anything.

In reality of course Obama was criticized by many for his lack of action on climate change. Fox also forgot to mention that coal companies were being hammered by the fact that many power generators were switching to lower-cost natural gas, the increased production of which is largely a byproduct of Republican-endorsed oil exploration policies and fracking. But hey, if you can rile up the base by implying that Democrats are wrecking the economy, it’s all good, right? Obama got elected. Coal companies went bust. The facts in between don’t matter. Whoever came up with that bit of innuendo probably got a little desk paperweight award from Roger Ailes.

TL;DR version: I think after almost 1000 posts we can conclude that the answer to “Is Fox News really all that bad?” is the same as the answer to the old question about the Pope’s Catholicism and the excretory practices of woodland bears.

Well, that’s about 8 jobs right there.

Maybe they’re going the micro route …


Do a little dance, make a little lie
Get Fox tonight, get Fox tonight, baby!

I just started a new Elections thread where I scored the debate – the moderators, not the candidates. It seems pretty clear to me that they were trying to promote Bush and Rubio, and trash Trump.

I also suspect they may have been trying to help Walker, but it backfired, because he showed the world how clueless he is on foreign policy.

At the same time, they have a vested interest in not trashing Trump too badly. Him in the race brings in ratings for them. Their main business is still news entertainment. Running the GOP is just a side gig.

In case you missed my quote in the other thread:
“We need to control the debates. The Party needs to control the debates” – RNC chairman Reince Preibus, August 5, 2013

Depends on who “they” means. To Murdoch now it’s all about ideology. To Ailes and his management, it’s a happy convergence where driving the ideology also drives the ratings among the fools who like hearing what they want to hear – and they don’t get to hear it on the danged lib’rul mainstream media – media that is so danged socialist that occasionally some thoughtful patriot will put a bullet through his TV screen out of sheer unbridled patriotism.

Headline currently on Fox News front page:
European smugglers shop nuclear material to ISIS

Well, that’s about as scary as anything I’ve read all week.

Except that if you bother to read the story, you find that the material was not nuclear, and that the customers were not ISIS.

I guess if it bleeds, it leads, but if it lies, it flies.

In fairness to Fox :eek: their story is based off an AP story… which on my reading most decidedly did NOT pass the smell test.* The Fox account actually cites a law enforcement source partially debunking the AP’s story, which is here.

So, headline notwithstanding, the article itself is actually not that misleading by Fox standards.

*For example, from the original AP story:

Uh-oh, the kingpins got away? By any chance did they match these pictures? Please continue.

“Thriving,” you say? Is that why we’ve seen such a spate of radioactive attacks by terrorists and other evildoers lately? :confused: