Is Fox News really all that bad?

:rolleyes:

When one bothers to take into consideration the timeline of how the ones that were very likely guided or influenced by Russia where removed from Trump’s cabinet the conclusion is that a likely bromance was going on.

There was a situation where Russia was having an influence that was going to affect the USA with results that would benefit Putin the most. IMHO while some on the right expect the opposition to Trump to fail when it is likely that this issue will not force Trump out of office, they are ignoring that the main point of the investigations was/is to minimize that Russian influence.

The investigations already have succeeded in removing recognized foreign agents like Flynn and Manafort and once the replacements had the ear of Trump even an ignorant git like him would recognize how naive he was until recently.

Bolding mine. Maybe you might want to consider that in our country, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, even in cases where guilt is obvious. The use of the word “allegedly” by the press is not some new tactic.

Care to cite a few specific examples, or would that be irony overload?

Seriously. Literally all responsible reporting on not-yet-concluded criminal proceedings uses that word or a synonym.

Obligatory amusing use of the word.

**Is Fox News really all that bad?

**Well, it’s a little less bad today than it was previously, with the boot to O’Reilly. But there will be plenty of new bad to fill that empty spot. So, soon it will be as bad as before, or even worse, who knows. Smart money is on “never less bad, not for long”. Not as bad today as it could be, as it strives to be, just because there is a Bad vacancy.

Seriously, doesn’t a missing “alleged” prior to a conviction make a newspaper article pretty much a libel machine, spewing money for the mentioned suspect?

All right, then I’m sure you can produce a thread much like this about, say, the New York Times.

:rolleyes:

Sure, most news outlets in the USA have a liberal bias. Just like most scientists, most educators, and most colleges. This has, in no small part, to do with the rampant anti-intellectualism on the right, but that’s a bit of an aside. So journalists tend to lean left. However, news outlets like CNN, the Washington Post, the New York Times, ABC, and the like do their best to act and appear unbiased and balanced. Some bias sneaks in here or there, but if the big story of the day is, “Huge IRS scandal uncovered, Obama targeting conservative groups”, you will never see a source like the Times or the Post shoving that back to D12, because despite the fact that it’s goring a liberal idea or personality, it’s news, it’s important, and it deserves the headline.

In this thread, you can see quite a few examples of FOX News completely burying the lede when it comes to big stories in blatantly biased ways. If the big story is, “Obama administration Job numbers really good”, they’ll run it… On the back page somewhere, in brief mention, and still try to make the administration look bad. But hey, good for them - outlets like Gateway Pundit or Breitbart wouldn’t even run that story - if they mention the job numbers at all, it will be to complain about why they aren’t better, or spin conspiracies about the “real” unemployment rate.

This is, fundamentally, the difference. Mainstream outlets and right-wing “news” outlets both have underlying biases through their employees. However, mainstream outlets strive against those biases, while right-wing outlets embrace them. So you end up with a situation as Vox describes here:

Liberal Ted Turner created CNN, an organization that, whatever its faults (and they are legion) saw itself, and still sees itself, as a neutral referee with transpartisan authority. It has cosmopolitan aspirations.

Conservative Roger Ailes (funded by conservative Rupert Murdoch) created Fox News, a channel that carried, and still carries, mostly talk radio–style right-wing commentary. Like talk radio, it is of the conservative movement, in a way that no mainstream media outlet would ever think of itself as of the left. The closest thing on cable, MSNBC, is running from the liberal label as fast as it can, “balancing” Rachel Maddow with a growing roster of conservatives.

[…]

Nonetheless, despite Fox’s current diminished state and demographic peril, it did its job: It threw open the door of the mainstream conversation to dozens of explicitly conservative news outlets. It established that “balance” in US media would consist of mainstream outlets striving to be neutral and conservative outlets openly leaning right.

Bolding mine. That, fundamentally, is the difference - “leftist” news strives for mainstream neutrality; “right-wing” news strives to further conservative goals. There is no equivalence here.

Depends, really. When the facts are in dispute (or disputable), then yeah. When, as in my example, you’re saying a guy was “allegedly caught on video punching a woman”, and the video of him punching a woman is** right there, **then IANAL but I think you can drop the “allegedly”. Demonstrable fact insulates from libel, isn’t it ?

That was the most “mixed-message” public firing I’ve ever seen. Could Fox have heaped any more praise on a guy they were firing then they did yesterday? There were so many accolades laid on the guy someone tuning in at the wrong time could easily get the idea that he was being promoted to Pope.

To do otherwise might give people the idea that they were aware and tacitly supported an environment of sexual predation in which Bill-o thrived for years. On the contrary, they were as shocked to learn this as anyone else, given the man’s extensive and highly regarded career.

In all fairness, CNN and NBC were wondering about who would be the next important voice against PC culture in the national media. Indeed, O’Reilly will be missed. :rolleyes:

The phrase would probably be “caught on video allegedly punching a woman”. The existence of the video is not in doubt, nor that the subject is on that video, but whether or not what is depicted can be described as a “punch” (or more legalistically, “battery”) is for a court to decide.

I bet when they found out yesterday that Fox itself was the source of the money given to hush up all those women they were absolutely floored. “What the fuck?? Bill told us he needed that money for elocution lessons!”

In the wake of the O’Reilly allegations and firing, Greg Gutfeld implies that a female co-host’s dress is giving him an erection.

This is a clip from the Charlamagne Tha God radio show, where he discusses it. The Fox clip starts at 1:12.

There’s a video of it here :

So, Saturday night seems to be my night to check out Fox News since the other news channels are running other programming.

So I caught the last 10 minutes or so of Jeanine Pirro’s show. It was somewhat frightening.She was talking to some alleged world affairs specialist. They both agreed that it was undisputed fact Russia was ready to decide to stop supporting Assad because of Trumps masterfully decisive air strike and Rex Tillersons way with words. And they also talked about how China was already starting to take care of North Korea and they reassured their viewers that everything in the world of geopolitics was different now THE Master of Negotiation was in charge. It was really scary - and you know Little Donny was watching.

Then they did this segment called Street Justice where Jeanine asks questions of random people in the streets of New York

Her questions tonight were a bizarre variation of the game Marry F**K, Kill. One was something like “Who would you rather run into in a dark alley”…Isis, Putin or Kim Jong Un?

Now, if you’re reaction to the question is something like Whaaatt?? I don’t get it…why would I be in a dark alley with them are they looking to kill me or for a tryst? And all of Isis or just one of them? Could you repeat the question maybe my ears weren’t working and that actually made sense ?..Well, that’s how most everyone responded. A couple of people were like…uhh. Putin?

The next question was a little easier to parse .
“Who do you think poses the biggest threat to the US?” Russia, North Korea or ISIS?
Now this was the best part of the show, because pretty much everyone answered “Donald Trump”. And JP couldn’t come up with anything better than-" Trump is a bigger threat than ISIS? Really?

Now, I’m pretty sure Jeanine’s husband used to be Trumps bestie … he’s another philandering asshat as well as being a mobbed up real estate lawyer/fixer and he allegedly did lots of business with Trump and he’s a personal friend. So she not exactly an impartial source

Well, they’ve actually been divorced for four years, but she did get lots of help from his “contacts” during her many failed electoral campaigns.

Oh, I didn’t realize she actually really left him - she should’ve done it way sooner, his baggage was part of the reason her electoral campaigns failed. I remember her saying it was a “marriage in name only” during her failed bid for NY Attorney General but she always seemed to have some great moral objection to divorce.

Yes, it is terrible and dangerous.

But they toss enough bits of data in the stream that is very minor but true, so they can keep selling the lies to an an uninformed public. Just like a con man to appear legit, will tell you some minor truths to get you to believe the bigger lies so you will keep listening.

The use of “alleged” went from rare to ubiquitous after numerous media outlets basically declared that security guard Richard Jewell had set a bomb in the Olympic Park and then faked ‘discovering’ it in order to be a faux hero. For a while he was vilified mercilessly.

It turned out that a different somebody had set up us the bomb, and Jewell had been particularly good at doing his job of security while coincidentally falling within some of the demographic categories of the sort of person who might set up a bomb. He successfully sued for libel, and was justified in doing so.

I don’t think that the new practice of always using the word ‘allegedly’ even when it’s completely obvious is great, but I don’t think Richard Jewell deserved widespread hatred for an act of heroism, either.

The standard used of “alleged” goes back decades before Jewell. It was standard in the 1960s. Whether it pre-dates or post-dates the Cleveland Press accusations against Sam Sheppard in the 1950s, I do not know.