No. It is neither necessary, nor sufficient, to have the Ghaelach at all to be considered of Irish ethnicity. I consider Irish an ethnicity, yes, but it’s got bugger-all to do with speaking Irish, IMO, at least the current ethnicity. Sure, yes, it informs and influences the culture. So did Catholicism. Do you have to be a Catholic to be ethnically Irish?
So, do you consider* all Muslims* an ethnicity, then? Because Arabic plays that *exact *same role - universal liturgical language, lots of people learn it as kids not as a mother tongue, only some places is it an actual conversational language, etc.
“Jew” is a concept that is not like “Irish”, “German”, “Amish” (I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, that you stop being “Amish” if you become an atheist), “African American” or “Muslim”. It is a Venn-diagram of genes, culture and religion. It is not strictly an ethnicity, it is not strictly a religion, and it is not strictly a genotype. It is a tribe.
Tribes may allow in members that are not genetically related to the tribe as long as they immerse themselves in the culture and religion of the tribe. You will continue belonging to the tribe even though you’re not practicing its religion. And you don’t stop being the member of the tribe when you adopt a different culture.
If common language is the only criteria for ethnicity, then yeah I suppose I would.
My argument is simply that Hebrew fills the common language role in spirit and that it doesn’t matter if it’s used conversationally by most because it is used by all in some way. (again with the possible exception of Ethiopia. I have to keep them separate because of my lack on knowledge.)
I fail to see how it’s ‘not like “Muslim”’, at all.
All of that applies to ethnicity in general - you can be adopted into an ethnicity, you can be an ethnicity without following all its practices, and you can have multiple ethnic identities.
Yes, a person can be atheist and still consider themselves a Muslim, ethnically. This doesn’t mean others will, but then, it’s the same for Jews, no? There *are *ultra-Orthodox groups who would consider an atheist Jew not a true Jew.
Sure, I’ve met one. Buddhism is an easy one for that, it lines up nicely with the more mystical side of Islam.
Actually, many African Americans have Irish ancestry. Like Barack Obama for example. He has as much right to claim to be an Irish-American as anyone whose great grandparent was born in Moneygall. (Am I off by one “great”?)
Apparently there has been an increase in African Americans researching their Irish heritage and traveling to their family homes since Obama publicized his journey.
I have Scots-Irish ancestry, but I dont identify with this ethnicity since I feel no personal connection to it. I only bring it up in conversations about ancestry.
I dont know how Malcom Gladwell identifies ethnically, but his mother is Afro-Carribean and his father is Irish, IIRC.
There’s capital W White. These people, due to their ancestry, family history, their level of social status, their income, and ethnicity, will always be 100% unquestionably White. These people include those of English-Dutch-German descent who can trace their ancestry back to the Mayflower or at least prior to the Civil War; who are usually Protestant (if not Protestant in religion, Protestant in culture); socially upper-upper middle class to wealthy; the country club sorta people. The fair skinned American who shows no ‘ethnic’ features of any sort and lacks any distinctive accent. These are the type of people who would be able to use “Affluenza” as a legal defense.
Then there’s white with a small w. These people are a much more diverse group and can at times be considered white, and just as equally not be considered white due to their ancestry, social standing, American history and income. Jews fall into this category. So do Semitic peoples in general as well as Southern Europeans, Hispanics, mixed-race children, and those of Irish Catholic descent. Catholics in general along with Jews and Muslims fall into this category. First (and sometimes second and third) generation immigrants from any locale regardless of color are also small w white. So are Native Americans depending on how they choose to self-identify and if they can “pass” as White. Lower case white people run a diverse range economically but usually are either working class or lower to solid middle class. They are not by any means wealthy or carefree economically; they may at most be ‘comfortable.’ They are labelled ‘white’ mainly due to the pigment of their skin but may not consider themselves so.
I know, I just want to be clear about where I am coming from.
And again, I’m not saying it is any different from Muslims. I am also saying it’s not the only factor (I think you agree). I don’t know nearly enough about Muslims to have an intelligent opinion about those other factors.
Ethnicity is tribal affiliation. If you identify yourself as a member of an ethnic group, and other members of that ethnic group identify you as a member, and people outside the group identify you as a member, then you’re a member.
Ethnicity isn’t a matter of genetics or biology, it’s something that exists in the human mind. Yes, yes, in the usual manner of things ethnicity is transmitted from parents to children. But it very often isn’t. There are plenty of people in modern Turkey who identify as ethnically Turkish, but who have a majority of ancestry from ancient Anatolia, not the Central Asian Steppe. How’d that happen?
It’s possible to adopt an ethnicity, all that has to happen is that you decide you’re part of the group and everyone else agrees. The more markers you share with the group the more likely it is that everyone will agree, and if you have enough then agreement is pretty much universal except among congenital contrarians like we sometimes find here on the Dope.
“Ultra Orthodox” is Orthodox. They are a bit more strict, but that has nothing to do with the “who is a Jew” thing. If you’re born a Jew, you stay one. Even if you’re an atheist. I am sure you can find one or two Jews would disagree with that, but then you can find one or two people for any opinion in the world - who cares.
Some ethnic groups won’t every agree that you’re a member of that group. You can be a Nigerian and be formally adopted as a Navajo, and just about every Navajo will agree that you’re now a Navajo, regardless of your ancestry, even though the vast majority of Navajo people have mostly Navajo ancestry.
But while it’s possible to become a citizen of Ireland through some formal process, there is no formal process to become an Irishman, unless we tautologically define “Irishman” as “Citizen of Ireland”.
The fact is, many people won’t agree that a Nigerian who becomes a citizen of Ireland won’t “really” be Irish. But it would be a lot easier for someone from England or Scotland or Wales or America to move to Ireland and have people agree that they’re Irish. Take Eamon de Valera, for example.
Again, the point is that ethnicity exists in the human mind. And all it takes is for people to agree that you are a member of an ethnicity. That doesn’t mean they WILL agree, they may very well not agree, and then your Hibernophile Nigerian is neither fish nor fowl.
