I think most theologians–certainly most Christian theologians–would take exception to both of these statements. (Well, I suppose the Mormons might buy it.) Note that, if God exists within the Universe, and has mass, he would be limited by the physical laws of the Universe, including the limitation of being unable to move faster than (or even as fast as) the speed of light in a vacuum. Actually, Arthur Clarke wrote a short little essay to that effect years and years ago; he suggested that’s why prayers go unanswered: God is coming as fast as he can…
P.S. This seems more like a Great Debates (or perhaps only an IMHO) thread than a General Questions one.
He asked a question, and it certainly sounded general enough for me. And personally I think God IS dark matter, all praise dark matter!!! No, but seriously, if God is omnipotent, why couldnt he exist out the confines of our universe? Maybe God is just an average Joe in a larger universe and were just in a dark little corner of his ear. Maybe our solar system is just an atom in a larger molecule. Maybe maybe maybe.
Okay, bear in mind I’m coming at this from the outside as being an atheist. However…
Every biblical translation I’ve ever seen says that God is ‘All-Powerful’ rather than use the word ‘Omnipotent’. Now, all-powerful could be interpreted as omnipotent, but it could ALSO be interpreted as meaning that he has all the powers it is possible to have in this universe without violating any physical laws.
If the latter applies, then God would have to be inside the universe. However, I don’t think he’s a lot of interstellar dust.
Ever consider pantheism, quasar? They think the whole universe IS god.
I can think of a couple of things that are neither atoms nor electromagnetic waves. Neutrinos and concepts that exist only in a person’s mind, like happiness. Of course, I don’t think god is neutrinos.
Electromagnetic waves and matter are pretty much the same thing. Waves don’t have rest-mass. But they do have mass, precisely because they are moving very fast.
Anyhoo, your conclusion is flawed:
This brakes down logically like this:
God is undetected (scientifically)
Dark matter is undetected
Therefore: God is Dark matter
The Logic Police would have you arrested for this; the conclusion does not follow from the premises.
We have never detected His mass, hence He’s missing from our models of the universe.
So is dark matter.
To which Dr. Matrix replied:
quote:
This brakes down logically like this:
God is undetected (scientifically)
Dark matter is undetected
Therefore: God is Dark matter
The Logic Police would have you arrested for this; the conclusion does not follow from the premises.
The Logic Police would have you arrested for this; there are no conclusions on that argument, only two valid premises followed by a question raised by their analysis.
Premise A: We have never detected His mass, hence He’s missing from our models of the universe
Premise B: So is dark matter.
What it says is simply that both God and dark matter are absent from existing models of the universe. No conclusion there.
But a question does come to mind though: since we don’t know much about the nature of God and most efforts to comprehend Him are esoteric and unscientific, why not use the existing scientific body of knowledge to interpret the mystery that is God? What if God is dark matter?
Of course there’s no scientific method here, only a philosophical speculation.
Besides, wouldn’t it be neat if we could kill two birds with the same stone. Think about it. Understanding God in terms of dark matter and viceversa. Two profound mysteries been simultaneously eradicated from the vast oceans of human ignorance. Gotta love it.
Not to mention a possible unification between religion and science. Nah!!! That’s stretching it too much.
God was before and will be after the universe.
dark mater also could be in the form of negitive mass particles that can move faster the the SoL.
Using Christan beliefs here, God (Son and Spirt, can’t remember if the Father came here, don’t think so) along with angles and for that matter demons and the evil one himself existed and or still exist on earth now, probally adding weight to the universe. The heavenly kingdom probally is pretty heavy (in more ways then one) also - but it is in our universe and can it account for 90% of the universe’s mass?
Also this was a Cecil topic before, but what is preventing the night sky from being all lighted up, since stars are the majority of the mass we see and we assume is out there? Does the dark matter prevent this? The only matter that we know of that could do that would be a black hole since particles would eventually have to re-radiate whatever energy it absorbes.
The Nature of God a General Question? I think not.
This thread is off to Great Debates.
Before I send it though, the following thought occurs: Dark matter is currently thought to be fairly massive, yes? So if God is dark matter, is it possible that he can’t lift Himself?
I’m not so sure the universe comprises everything that exists. Everything we can detect, yes. I’ll assume this for the sake of arguement, but this is getting shaky.
Where did this come from? You can say something cannot be both made of atoms and an electromagnetic wave, but some things, such as neutrinos and imaginary beings are neither.
OK. I’ll accept this.
Umm… You just lost me. As I pointed out above, this just does not follow.
This is assuming that only (atomic) matter and energy are legitimate states of existence. Seems reasonable but – not proven. What if “spirit” (whatever that may be) is yet a third state? IIRC, people had substantial problems with the atomic-fusion concept until the idea of “plasma” as a fourth state of matter was advanced.
There was an old gospel song called, “Turn Your Radio On” – the implication being, to God. Spider Robinson, on the other hand, makes clear the truth behind “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?”
Oh, and Manny, He said He’d tackle the “rock so heavy He can’t lift it” problem when He gets done with the four-sided triangle. Just thought you’d like to know! :wally:
Who said God is made of atoms? Catholics believe (from what I know) that God is not a physical but a spiritual being. Mormons, again from what I know, believe God is a physical being.
I don’t think I can really explain this to you (the Catholic belief) . . . it’s hard for me to understand. Granted I am not the most holy person or the most closely connected to God. I suppose things will be more clear after I die (they will be more clear to me).
However, I don’t think there are a lot of people on here who are going to allow you to operate under the assumption that God is a physical being.
I think current findings indicate that neutrinos do have mass, although not very much of it. They’d certainly fall within the realm of physical entities at any rate.
Hmmmm…if God is made of matter/energy, wouldn’t he be bound by the laws of thermodynamics? So, his entropy would inevitably increase, and eventually he’d die (reach maximum entropy). Of course, he could “eat” things to stave off death–decrease his entropy at the expense of whatever it is he’s eating, just like we do–but that still raises the question of what he’d do once he ran out of things to eat that weren’t themselves at maximum entropy (since most current observations seem to suggest the Universe is “open” and will gradually peter out to nothingness in a very long time).
All of this also raises unsettling thoughts…just what is it that God eats, anyway? Are we talking about some kind of “anti-communion” here?
My point was there are things that are neither atoms nor electromagnetic waves. Whether neutrinos have mass or not isn’t my point. They are not atoms nor EM waves. And whether or not they have mass, yes, they are physical entities.
I am not a Roman Catholic, but I always thought they believed God was a physical being, since he is made of wine and crackers blessed by a priest. ::ducking and running::
