I don’t think you are really telling your kids to be “grateful” (even if that is the word you use), you’re telling them to look on the bright side, to consider themselves fortunate for the things they DO have rather than unfortunate for the things they DON’T have. This doesn’t require being thankful of a specific entity, it’s just encouraging a positive world view, and anyone can do that, atheist or theist.
I don’t know about you, but very little in my life is due to working for it. If I’d been born in a third world country, no amount of hard work would result in me living comfortably in a freehold house with very little to worry about other than if I’m getting a little overweight. 99.9% of our position in life is due to chance, the other little bit is to do with how you play the hand you were dealt. And so yes, we should consider ourselves fortunate that we who we are, when we are, because it could be a lot worse for many of us.
Gratitude and atheism are orthogonal aspects of religion. Religion seems to have three different areas of fulfilling human needs. The social, moral, and metaphysical. Gratitude seems to me to be more about the social and moral, while atheism - with the main pillar being a lack of belief in a deity, is more about metaphysics (or how physics has eliminated the need for metaphysics).
In other words, I don’t believe that atheism, assuming one could even lump all atheists in together, has anything to say about gratitude one way or another.
I’m not an atheist I’m an ignostic. If you say god to me I ask which one and ask you to define your terms.
I’m grateful to my neighbour because he has helped me a lot when my back acts up and I cannot go to do my shopping. I’ve treated him two lunches as will treat him, but he always says that he does not need it. But I do.
I’m grateful that I have born and live in Finland where I’m not looked askance because I don’t follow any religion. I’m grateful for the medical treatment I get from society that I don’t pay a cent except by paying taxes. I bring these up all the time when I speak about Finland and I give the doctors that treat me friendly smile and banter. Let them know that I appriciate what they do.
When I was working at the munincipal water treatment facility and mentioned it one time in a bar I got two free beers from guys who thought that I was working where no-one else would like to work. I accpected and thanked. But there are always people who are ready to do theshitiest jobs and I like when someone appriciates it. I always smile on waitresses and janitors the same way.
I think that sums it up pretty well. To be grateful is to be consciously aware of the positive things, big or small, of your life, and to feel a sense of appreciation for whatever external phenomenon/entity you feel has conferred those blessings upon you. That phenomenon/entity may or may not be God.
David Steindl-Rast is a Benedictine monk who, after a lifetime of study, has concluded that cultivating a sense of gratitude toward even the most mundane aspects of one’s life is a key to one’s happiness. In one of my favorite YouTube videos (see below), he expounds on this idea at length. Despite being a monk, he never brings God into the matter.
(video is cued to 3:45; give it about a minute after that before he gets rolling)
So I also wonder about this. But my issue with the popular secular “gratitude movement” is gratitude implies you are grateful to someone. For religious people who you are grateful to is obvious, but who is generic secular gratitude directed to? (similarly with “blessings”: blessing is a verb directed from a source to a target)
So taking tavaritz’s example.
This makes sense, you are showing gratitude to your neighbor, no need for a higher power there…
This makes less sense to me. Who are you grateful to for being born in Finland? You are not grateful to the Finish politicians who made it a secular society, you are grateful that you were born in Finland. who made sure of that? (I guess your parents had something to do with it, but unless they were immigrants, they didn’t choose to settle in Finland, they were born there too.)
In that case, Max’s statement is a non-sequitur, as the OP is whether someone can be have gratitude without believing in god, not whether people who believe in a god have gratitude towards it.
Why does gratitude have to be directed at an individual? I can be grateful that we finally got some rain, without having to direct that at Zeus. I can be grateful for having a sunny day, without having to direct that at Apollo.
Gratitude is about focusing on the positives in your experiences, not about giving out awards.
Can you? Gratitude specifically means being thankful to someone IMO (its derived from the latin word for Thankful). If it isn’t directed at someone what does it even mean, who are you saying thanks to?
I’d disagree, its specifically being thankful to someone for something (e.g. tavaritz ’s example.where he is thankful to his neighbor for helping him when his back acts up)
I don’t see where it specifically says someone in any definition. Something, sure. If I want to be grateful for the weather patterns that have finally brought much needed rain, then I can. I don’t need to anthropomorphize or create a deity to be thankful towards.
It can be. But it is a very limited definition that you have chosen to use, if that is the only way it can be expressed. Basically, what you are trying to say, is that unless you can specifically point to someone responsible, you cannot feel appreciation for something. The only reason to use such a narrow definition is to try to insist on invoking a personification of whom to be thankful.
So, if you hear someone say, “I’m grateful that it’s finally cooling off.” would you assume that they are thanking god, or simply showing appreciation for their pleasant experience?
You can feel appreciation for something without thanking someone for it, you can be happy about something without thanking someone for it, but the verb grateful is the action of being thankful to someone for something.
When I am grateful or feel gratitude, to me it’s not something that’s directed or rather need be directed towards someone. To me, it’s just an emotion of contentment and appreciation coupled with perspective.
My dictionary, at least, is circular in this regard: appreciation is defined as" an expression of gratitude"; thankfulness is defined as “expressive of gratitude”; gratitude is “appreciative of benefits received; thankful”.
Suppose I leave a valuable item in my unlocked car. I return some time later to find the item still there. Is that a benefit? Yes. Can I appreciate that? Yes. Is there a person that deserves gratitude? If someone shouts to me “Hey you left your car unlocked” I would be grateful to them. I’m not going to be grateful to someone for not taking it since they shouldn’t take it anyway. I’m grateful that no one happened by that decided to take my stuff, or they thought better of it, or no one happened to see it. These are all benefits that I can appreciate. No specific person or being needs to be responsible for them.
In my opinion, by expressing gratitude towards your circumstances, you have personified your circumstances (or your luck). But that’s just semantics.
The question in the OP, what is your rationale for being grateful towards something without sentience? I mean, yes, the circumstances did provide you with a benefit. There is something to appreciate. But what reason is there to express or even feel appreciative when there is nobody to receive your appreciation?
Reading your replies, I don’t think you have answered that question yet.
ETA: Personally I think the feeling of appreciation is not necessarily subject to conscious logic. I think it is partially a natural product of evolution and child development, as we are a social species: when something good happens we feel appreciative. As children this is something taught to us by our parents - OP asks why, and I say (post #2) it is to prepare children for future social interactions. With people.
That we end up thanking inanimate rocks is a side effect, from an atheist perspective; but humility towards nature does have some secondary benefits such as caution or mitigating depression.
A person feels fortunate for the good or pleasant things in their life and circumstances. And feels inspired to express how they feel fortunate for this, and may even feel it morally compels them to help others experience the good.
I’m not going to spend much time questioning why they feel so and what to call it. Call it gratitude, thankfulness, kindness, whatever. Good for them.
Perhaps some theists think that everything comes from god. The classic example is the person whose life is saved by a complex operation requiring doctors, nurses, and advanced medical equipment.
The person wakes up, is told that they are fine, and thanks god for his salvation.
I’m being generous in assuming he thinks god is responsible for everything. He just might be a dick.
