Is gratitude for the military overemphasized?

Great Debates
41

Yeah, doesn’t that piss you off? Obviously, yours is a righteous view and expressing it is an excellent political strategy in a country that has long respected service in the military. :dubious:

By actual count, I believe this is the 3,568th Dope thread I’ve seen in recent years griping about our having to give too much respect to the military, or police, or similar public servants.

I don’t think it was a great idea for us to have gotten embroiled in a number of foreign military campaigns including Iraq and Afghanistan. However I am grateful for the sacrifices of those who’ve served there, seeing as how they are occuping the attention of a lot of violent religious fanatics who might otherwise be focusing on projects in the U.S. I reserve contempt for political leaders who waste lives and resources on poorly-thought out foreign adventures, not those who serve in them.

42

This is something i have some complex, unresolved thoughts on.

I was a Peace Corps volunteer. I served my country.

I did not do what veterans do. I did not see my buddies die in IED attacks. I did not experience the fear of war. I cannot equate my experience to life in a warzone. I do not mean to offend by saying this, and i know it is sensitive.

I did live in difficult conditions- 120 degree heat without any climate control, 20 degree cold without any central heating. I lived for extended periods without water or electricity. I was very remote, and often very alone.

I saw my buddies get stabbed, violently raped, struck down with deadly and disfiguring diseases, axed, macheted, threatened with guns, unlawfully detained, maimed, rendered psychotic by anti-malarials, and otherwise traumatized. I have laid on my death bed. I was violently attacked and broke my back in the struggle, and was subject to an attempted rape with a broken back. I, like many of my friends, came out with a genuine case of PTSD. It took me a year to sleep through the nights without waking up in a cold sweat. It took me two years until I stopped remembering how close I was to death or paralysis and breaking and crying at random. It was inches. That part of me is still not entirely resolved. I have a habit of embarrassingly and inappropriately telling the story to strangers.

I got, after four years of service, around $7,000 and 1 year of non-competitive eligibility for federal jobs. I also get a lot of cracks about a “two year vacation.”

I served my country. Not in the same way, and not to the same degree, but I did serve. I’m not sure what to say. This is an incoherent thought of mine. But I want to say soemthing.

43

Did you ever start a “ask the…” thread? If not, I would love for you to indulge your habit of embarassingly and inappropriately telling the stories to strangers. I don’t mean the attempted rape specifically but everything that happened during your four year service and the years following.

44

I served in the military, my father served and Yes, I think gratitude is overemphasized. (I’ve wondered it was a counter to the crappy way many of us Vietnam era guys were treated.)

This hit home for me when I got a family-wide email from a cousin announcing that their son was going to Iraq (no other details were given). Other cousins (non of whom served), responded with effusive letters of thanks that were, IMHO - over the top. The kid dutifully sent back photos in battle gear, holding an automatic weapon.

He was working for the Gallup Poll organization on a government contract…

45

Purple hearts for paper cuts!

As an aside, I was a combat engineer for two years in the reserve, never deployed. Does this rub off on me too or is that not significant enough? Can I honestly say that I served in the military?

46

I have.

This particular story is a tough one. Obviously it’s a pretty intense story, even though it ends well. I’ve found on a few occasions, I’ve ended up telling it in inappropriate situations- stuff like a first date, at a party, to a new friend… situations where it’s not really the place to be bringing up things that are still so raw. I’m always embarrassed when I do it, because i know it makes people uncomfortable and paints me in a pretty odd light. But somehow, the urge to tell it can be overwhelming and it comes out.

It’s only recently, on the Dope, that I’ve learned that over disclosure is a sign of PTSD. Hearing that floored me- it’s like a piece of the puzzle got put together.

47

I don’t want to sound like I’m diminishing the value of what you did in the Peace Corps, because I don’t intend to, but how exactly does it serve our country (America)?

48

That was a beautiful response even sven.

Perhaps it’s not so much that too much gratitude is being given to those serving in the military, but rather not enough is given to others who have also made personal sacrifices for the benefits of others.

It kind of reminds me of breast cancer–everyone is so busy raising awareness of breast cancer that a lot of equally horrible diseases are being forgotten.

49

I am glad that you did.

With regard to your story, I don’t think it means that people overvalue the military. They do, however, undervalue the work of Peace Corps volunteers such as you.

ETA: What ataraxy22 said.

50

It’s a government program created, in part, to bolster the image of the United States in the eyes of the world. By “Helping promote a better understanding of Americans on the part of the peoples served.”

51

We don’t ask for it, we don’t expect it, and in fact are quite embarrassed by it. Yes, it’s overemphasized, especially in a country where we all volunteered to do it. I tend to thank other veterans for their service because for me they’re all brothers of a sort, but I certainly don’t walk around in my uniform looking for people to pat me on the back for it.

The biggest problem as I see it is that we have given people incentive to claim that they have done things that they in fact have not done. If military service were not so venerated there would be no fakers, and thus no controversy over people who make extravagant claims of heroism.

Incidentally, if we take this argument to its logical conclusion, WWI and WWII veterans don’t deserve thanks either, because the United States has never been under serious threat of invasion. There has not been a battle within a thousand miles of the United States since 1898, and there was no threat of invasion from Spain then, either. No living citizen of the United States has ever fought for this country’s freedom. We may as well lay all the cards on the table if we’re going to have this discussion and bring up uncomfortable truths.

That said, they did serve their country’s interests to the best of their abilities. The men of my father’s generation did the same, and did the men of my generation and the most recent one. That those interests may not be something you approve of is irrelevant, not everybody approved of our involvement in the World Wars, either.

The point is this: a veteran is a veteran. If they served honorably they should all be treated exactly the same. It is for you to decide for yourself how you feel about veterans and act accordingly. If you thank us it’s appreciated. If you don’t, that’s perfectly OK too.

However, the emphasis of the military is deeply rooted in our culture and always has been. As countries go we are a relatively young one, and we still discuss our origins regularly because they are so (relatively) recent. Hell, our entire history is told by wars that we have fought, all the way up until the beginning of the last century. It will take a considerable effort indeed to reduce that emphasis, if only because virtually every family has a veteran in it and it would be unseemly to diminish their service when such a large mythos has been built up around them. Who wants to reduce their grandfather’s service to a job? Who wants to render meaningless a loved one’s death? This is why the emphasis exists, and chances are it will never go away.

So, what do you want to do about it? More to the point, what do you think you can do about it?

52

Pancho Villa raided Columbus, New Mexico in 1916 with a force of between 500-600 men who were repelled by the United States Army who drove off the invaders after inflicting over 75 casualties. The United States Army also engaged both revolutionaries and the the Mexican army well within 1,000 miles of the border. Do those count?

As another poster already pointed out, the adoration for the military is mostly lip service (kind of like the false adoration for teachers). When it comes down to brass tacks, pay, health benefits, etc., etc. there’s been ample demonstration that most Americans adore the military. They don’t hate the military. They just don’t really adore members of the Armed Services.

53

You couldn’t be more wrong. The same line of reasoning that states that serving the US government is not inherently praiseworthy would also lead you to conclude that someone who saves British or French lives is just as praiseworthy as someone who saves Americans.

54

Saving British and French lives is more praiseworthy than saving American lives. I’m puzzled you don’t appear to understand that?

55

As a currently mobilized reservist, I’d have to say absolutely yes.

I am currently mobilized in the Middle East, though not in Iraq or Afghanistan. I have a safer and more comfortable life than many deployed servicemen, but I’ll still spend almost a year away from my family in a place I’d rather not be, doing work I’d rather not do. I got heaps of praise and gratitude as I was preparing to head out here, but I often asked myself if I actually deserved any of it.

The reality for me is that I signed up knowing deployment was possible or even likely. And if I am completely honest with myself, a lot of my motivation to join was to get the tangible benefits of service (military retirement, job security, extra pay, etc.). In other words, I evaluated my personal decision to serve like anyone else deciding whether to take a job or not.

This isn’t to say that “non-tangible” motivation to have joined/stayed in the military was unimportant. Without being corny, some of reason to serve indeed came from a sense of duty and a belief in the responsibilities of citizenship. But lots of people serve their country out of the same civic-mindedness: teachers, cops, EMTs, firefighters , poll workers, etc. and don’t get the same love.

Some of the extra adulation of the military is undoubtedly because of the personal risk and hardship that often comes with military service, but again lots of other “service” jobs have their share of hardship and risk without the same adulation. And it’s also worth remembering that the vast majority of military jobs are not in places like Iraq or Afghanistan.

I think it is absolutely the case that political forces (primarily, though not exclusively, on the right) intentionally create this fervor, and then cynically use it to “prove” their own patriotism, push through bad foreign policy, overspend on unnecessary weapons systems that benefit their districts and campaign contributors, and deflect criticism of their own blunders.

For me, there is certainly value in honoring the sacrifice of those wounded and killed in service, but the glorification of joe-average veteran, who may or may not have seen combat or even deployment, is way overdone. Since we already honor our fallen heroes on Memorial Day, perhaps we should go back to celebrating November 11th as a day to hope for peace. In any event, as a military person currently serving overseas, I think we could certainly afford to cut back on all this “Thank you for your service” business.

56

As with a couple of others above, my feelings on this are complex and ever-evolving. I spent my time as a peace-loving, anti-military, no-nukes type in my younger days, and have since become more inclined to take the stance that a strong military is a necessity, but one that we should be reluctant, thoughtful, and deliberate about using.

I tend to have great respect for anyone who has a job in which it is a distinct possibility that they will be killed or severely injured as a part of their normal work day, and which job is done for the greater good. I give an extra measure of respect for those who join the armed forces because they knowingly and willingly (even if naively on the part of some younger members) give up their self-determination as to how they are deployed. Police and firefighters, while certainly at mortal risk, have a pretty good idea of how and where they will be used. The day-to-day is unpredictable, but the broad strokes are pretty well-defined. They have a good idea of what’s in store for them when they sign up.

Our military can’t count on this. Yes, someone who signed up in the decade after the Sept. 11 attacks should recognize that there is a strong likelihood that they will be deployed to an active combat area, but consider someone who joined in, say, 1998. Sure there was a chance that they would see combat, but by and large we were in a peacetime stance. They could not have foreseen that we would send combat troops to Afghanistan or Iraq, yet we expect them to pack up and do so because we tell them to.

As I see it, someone who joins the military subsumes their will to the will of “the people” more thoroughly than anyone else I can think of off the top of their head. They are essentially putting their trust in the idea that the rest of us will not casually or callously put their lives at risk; that if we ask them to do so it will be for a very, very good reason. And, if we do risk them casually or callously, they are expected to just suck it up and do their job. They can’t just refuse to do so, or quit, without serious personal consequences, and they have essentially no say in the matter. I can’t think of any other profession that carries that degree of risk along with an abrogation of one’s independence.

I’ve probably not explained this as thoroughly or well as I’d like; it’s something that is still a bit nebulous and ill-formed in my own mind. But that’s basically it; we ask our service members to take on enormous risk and at the same time put their faith (and fate) in the rest of us to use them in a meaningful way. I think that’s worthy of a great deal of respect.

57

I think that much of the adulation of the military is due to the country’s overall Rightward drift. Some of it is also enabled by the Left’s sense that villifying conscripts during the Vietnam war was a mistake on several levels – that making common cause with those who do the dirty work everywhere is more congruent with leftist values. I’ve watched these changes happen over the past few decades.

Personally, I admire the ethos of the military in many ways although I don’t quite see why it cannot be harnessed to the service of peace and justice instead of violent destruction.

I find jingoism disgusting, always and everywhere.

58

We are one of the greatest and strongest nations in the world. We can’t continue to hold that title without military prowess. It doesn’t even matter if the military is ‘doing’ anything right now. We need people to serve and top of the line weapons. It’s public service. It’s worth a thanks. And it’s not an easy life, even when you’re not fighting in a war.