Is heaven boring?

Great Debates
41

If you think that heaven is defined is a place where sin never occurs, you might want to look up the story of Lucifer/Satan. And anyway, it’s my understanding that what’s conventionally called “going to Heaven” refers to somehow becoming part of God. Since sin is defined as rebellion against God, how does God rebel against himself?

I’m completely winging it without cites here, but I had the impression that only humans are able to become one and yet separate vis-a-vis the Godhead, so that they become parts of “God” in the same sense that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all part of “God” and yet remain individuals. It looks like angels aren’t capable of this transformation. Apparently, something in Man’s nature allowed a part of God to briefly become Man, and this in turn makes it possible for Man to become part of God. AFAIK, God never became an angel, maybe because angels are purely spirit rather than a spirit-animal hybrid.

AFAIK, that’s what “nirvana” is all about, literally “extinguishment”.

42

Here’s my answer: We all have an inborn desire to know God, but in this world, we try to satisfy that desire by wordly things. The desire to know God can never be satisfied by this world, so we get bored out of our minds a lot of the time.

When I get to heaven, I will see the eternal glory of God, and my desires will be fulfilled perfectly with an eternal fellowship with God, like they’ve never been in this world.

Since boredom is caused by unfulfilled desires, there won’t be any boredom in Heaven. In Hell, on the other hand . . .

If eternal life were the same as my life right now, though, I’d take oblivion any day of the week (and twice on Sundays).

43 

   FADE IN:

   INT - BAPTIST CHURCH

   Father William stands by the baptismal pool. Someone
   hands him a petri dish. He carefully removes the lid
   and takes something out of the dish with a pair of
   tweezers.

                     FATHER WILLIAM
             In the name of the Father, the
             Son, and the Holy Ghost.

   He gingerly dips the tip of the tweezers into the
   water for a moment.

                     FATHER WILLIAM
             I baptize you...

   He stares at the tip of the tweezers. Squints.

                     FATHER WILLIAM
             Um...

   He delicately pokes the tip of the tweezers with
   his index finger. Looks at his finger.

   Then leans over the baptismal pool, staring into
   the water. Sheepishly:

                     FATHER WILLIAM
             Uh, guys, I hate to say this,
             but...

   One of the congregation hands him an aquarium net,
   and he begins slowly sifting through the water.
44

Doghouse Reilly wrote:

You mean the one that isn’t in the Bible? (“Lucifer” is only mentioned once, in an Old Testament passage where the author was quite obviously referring to King Nebuchanezar [sp?], not Satan.)

45

Don’t try to weasel out this with a nonsequitor. You said “Christian tradition”; you didn’t say anything about what is or isn’t in the Bible. Christian theology conventionally explains the existence of the devil as an angel that rebelled against God (i.e., sinned) and was cast out of Heaven. Therefore your assertion that Christians define Heaven as as a place that’s necessarily free of sin is false. Therefore, your entire argument is spurious.

Don’t go throwing around those “Q.E.D.s” lightly boy.

46

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tracer *

IN HEAVEN, THERE IS NO FREE WILL!

Consider:[ul][li]According to Christian tradition, mankind was able to sin because God gave mankind free will. Without free will, it is impossible to sin.[/li][li]With free will, it is inevitable that, given an infinite amount of time, someone somewhere will sin.[/li][li]Heaven is supposed to be 100% sin-free for all eternity. Not 95% sin-free, not 99.99999999999% sin-free, 100% sin-free. God, in His omniscience and perfect knowledge of the future, has ordained that there will never be so much as one eensy-weensy sin committed in heaven, ever.[/ul]Since eternity is an infinite amount of time, then if free will existed in heaven, someone somewhere in heaven would eventually sin. But we already know that no sins will ever transpire in heaven. Therefore, heaven has no free will. Q.E.D… **[/li][/QUOTE]

Fantastic point, but it can be said that all sins can be considered related to physicallity and therefore nonexistant in a non-corporeal ‘realm’. If that is the case it nullifies the point.

47

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TradeMark *
**

Then you’d argue that Lucifer’s rebellion against God (in the non-Biblical tradition, thank you tracer) was not sinful? C.S. Lewis said that sin is an essentially spiritual concept, and a more “spiritual” sin like pride was much worse than an animalistic sin like simple adultery.

48

hah intersting point. There is a large discrepancy in christian teachings as related to sin. Lucifer’s (whom i will refer to as ‘satan’ due to the ongoing debate whether or not Lucifer is actually the accused or whether it was a translating error/ falsely reached conclusion linking two unrelated passages) fall preceedes that of Humainties correct? As such the ‘Free Will’ idea would have already occured once and God would have know better. However the rebellion is said to have occured in the first place garnering two possible answers- 1) God is not Omnipotent as he was betrayed/tricked/vamboozled by ‘satan’ or 2) God, Omnipotent, created the ‘satan’ being for a reason and therefore his ‘sinning’ was all part of a plan in the first place. Angels are messengers of God and in some readings are the embodied ‘Will’ of God. If a being is the Embodiment of anothers Will, is it not merely a portion of that greater Being? In that case Free Will would have first been given to man. Furthermore I disagree with Lewis on what constitues a sin, Pride would once again be physical as it would be that unreasonable appreciation for a measurable trait, a being without physical constraints has no measurable traits and as such no sin.

49

Hrm … Doghouse Reilly, I think you’re right. I can’t find one passage anywhere in the New Testament where it says that there is no sin in heaven.

Well, hey then! First thing I do when I get to heaven, I’m gonna get me some adulteresses – and maybe boil a young goat in its mother’s milk (Exodus 23:19 et al.) for good measure!

50

In Heaven there is no free will
(Free Will?!)
That’s why we use it still
And when we’re all dead and still
Our friends will be using free will…

EVERYBODY POLKA!

51

Ethilrist, that’s exactly what I thought when I saw that (except I hadn’t worked out the lyrics). I only suggest that it scans better if you make it “In Heaven there’s no Free Will”…

No Fre Will in Heaven? It sounds as if everyone there is a Stepford Wife. Give me Hell anyday over that

52

Is Heaven boring. If it exists it’s not boring today.

Two old friends, John and George are having a jam and catching up.

I’d love this to be true but alas … :frowning:

53

I recently saw the movie BLACK ROBE where this question came up. It is set in the seventeenth century and is about a French Jesuit is travelling with Algonquin Indians to a mission amongst the Huron. During the travels he tries to convert the Algonquin guides and a discussion about the afterlife comes up.

In their tradition one goes off to the dreamworld with their great spirit and join in a great hunt.

The Jesuit describes Paradise as sitting in the clouds content of being in the presence of the glory of God.

The Algonquins ask if there are any women, tobacco or sex in Paradise to which the Jesuit responds no, you don’t need those things. When the ask if anyone can go to Paradise he tells them only the believers of the true faith (ie Catholicism in his view) can make it to Paradise.
Needless to say the Algonquins don’t see the point of going to that afterlife as they believe it is only filed with Black Robes (Missionaries) sitting around staring at God.

I’d suggest this movie to anyone as it treats both sides equally and gives a good view of Canada in those early years of New France. It came out the same year as Dances with Wolves and I believe it shows a more realistic view of Native culture without having to resort to the cheap nice White guy going Native to show us how much better than they are. This shows both sides warts and all.

Sorry, got off topic… Uh the afterlife hopefully is what you make and take to it which is not boring unless you want it to be.

54

IMHO, Jeus said we will be like Him, so we will be omniscient, knowing ALL.
Thats a lot to learn
Why the sky blue?
Is evolution true?
WHY did you make Carrot Top?
etc.
Learning all this will take forever…:wink:

55

John was an atheist.

56

So you’re saying he was in for a surprise?

57

Naah, John wasn’t an atheist; he just imagined that. :wink:

58

if atheists go to heaven…I AM THERE!

But I’ll give it hell!

59

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tracer *

IN HEAVEN, THERE IS NO FREE WILL!

Consider:[ul][li]According to Christian tradition, mankind was able to sin because God gave mankind free will. Without free will, it is impossible to sin.[/li][li]With free will, it is inevitable that, given an infinite amount of time, someone somewhere will sin.[/li][li]Heaven is supposed to be 100% sin-free for all eternity. Not 95% sin-free, not 99.99999999999% sin-free, 100% sin-free. God, in His omniscience and perfect knowledge of the future, has ordained that there will never be so much as one eensy-weensy sin committed in heaven, ever.[/ul]Since eternity is an infinite amount of time, then if free will existed in heaven, someone somewhere in heaven would eventually sin. But we already know that no sins will ever transpire in heaven. Therefore, heaven has no free will. Q.E.D… **[/li][/QUOTE]

Gotta disagree with you here. Free will enables us to choose from a finite number of behaviors, some sinful, some sacred, most outside the realm of sin. Remove the sinful behaviors from the table, and you still have the power to choose from a finite number of behaviors, just a smaller number. So long as you are capable of making a choice, even if it is from only two alternatives, you have free will.

If the number of choices in heaven is infinite, then removing sinful behaviors from the list of possible behaviors still leaves you with infinite choices, and thus, free will.

I like the version of heaven in the movie “After Life”. You get to choose any moment in your life and spend eternity reliving that moment as you did the first time.

How about perfect selective memory wipe as a form of heaven to prevent boredom. Take the greatest book/movie/song/sexual etc. experience you’ve ever had. You get to wipe all memory of your favorite movie, and see it again for the first time. Wipe memory, repeat. You could never get bored, yet you would retain everything that makes you you.

60

I confess I only read the OP. Didn’t even read one response.
I have often thought about just that, and I have concluded Heaven would be excruciatingly boring. I believe that what makes life precious, and gives it it’s urgency, is the fact that we die. The fragile and temporary nature of being alive creates an imperative to do something, and enjoy it while you can. In the absence of that imperative I think consciousness would become complacent and slothfull.
Death is perhaps our greatest blessing.
Paradoxically, it is the thing which we fear the most.