That pesky Muslim problem:
Exactly who is squabbling and complaining? I find this rather amusing, honestly. 
Cloaked in URL, previous post. OP’s topic, yes? Discuss…
Referring to entire groups of people as a “problem”…nothing bad ever came from that, right?
Yes, but they’re laughing at you as fellow posters in a debate thread, not in their official capacity as moderators.
Well, your linked article in that post is about some Muslim girls being forced into marriage arrangements at young ages, which I think we can all agree is appalling and reprehensible.
What are you specifically claiming about the relevance of this topic to the current debate? I mean, I’m assuming that you had something in mind more specific and insightful than just thinking “this is a thread about negative impacts on the ‘global image’ of Islam, so here’s an article about a bad thing some Muslims do which negatively impacts their image”.
Although based on past experience, I think I may be giving you too much credit there.
Here’s an article from The Hindu, on the problem of child marriage. Islam is not the problem here.
So. A headline and a lead paragraph talking about this “Muslim” problem, but with no numbers to indicate whether it is frequent or sporadic.
Then, this admission from the author:
One more example of describing a problem that occurs among multiple communities as “Muslim.”
It would be interesting to me to know what pecuniary arrangements bind these fiats.
Yes, it would. What are you specifically claiming about the relevance of this topic to the current debate?
Or are you just trying to change the subject now that it’s been pointed out that your alleged “pesky Muslim problem” is actually a pesky Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, Jewish and Mormon problem?
That was the first of yesterday’s Islamic shame stories to cross my screen and I wasn’t even looking for it. You can find them everywhere all the time. How many do you think it takes to irreparably damage Islam’s global image?
Sorry, I should have said pesky “Islam” problem. Which Islamic atrocity or abomination should we tackle next? I’m sure others have done the same as well. But Islam is currently providing the best example of religion-sponsored human rights abuse. By far, in both numbers and severity.
Actually, according to the article you linked, you should have said “pesky Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism, and Mormonism problem”.
A hundred million or so Indian Dalits might have a different opinion.
I thought the topic was Islam? Do you mean to say because others do horrible stuff on a smaller scale as well makes it OK?
Nope, I certainly don’t mean to say that. And in fact, I didn’t say that.
I’m not claiming that human rights abuses committed by Muslims are okay under any circumstances. I’m just questioning your factually unsupported assertion that Muslims are quantitatively committing more and worse human rights abuses than any other religion in the world today.
It seems to me at least equally plausible that human rights abuses committed by Muslims are simply the only ones you really notice.
(Which is borne out by the fact that you linked to an article about child-marriage arrangements as evidence of a “pesky Muslim problem” without even noticing that the article mentions that such abuse also occurs among Hindus, Sikhs, Jews and Mormons.)
Except the analogy would actually be “what if UCL invited the BNP and a non-racist organisation to debate a topic”. And if they did, I would most certainly expect them to have separated seating for the two sides’ supporters if they didn’t want a riot.
Which is precisely what was done for this debate, and even when the atheist side decided they objected to this, an attempt was made to accommodate the people trying to make a point.
If the debate had been between, for example, pro-Israeli and pro-Palestine groups, would you expect people to sit together? If it had been a fundamental Jewish group arguing against atheists, would you complain if they had similar gender seating options?
Are you aware that the article you linked to was written in 2002? I’m no defender of Hinduism in general, but in relative terms, I think that it’s both more benign than Islam, and that the regressive forces in Hinduism are significantly less powerful than in Islam. Indian Muslim women for instance, are on average worse off than Indian Hindu women.
The only thing borne out so far is the existence of a multitude of reasons, facts, examples and evidence of Islamic insanity. Assuming you wish to stay “on topic” as opposed to refuting my position (which BTW, you have failed to do) Islam’s “global image” as t’were is subjective anyway. It’s what the average person thinks of it, generally speaking, right or wrong.
Myself and others have clearly supported characterization of that image, at least inasmuch as posters in this thread are concerned. So what’s your motivation for the argument against Islam’s horrible image? Any evidence to support that, or just focusing on me, personally? I assume you are able to access mainstream media sources. Or are you a shut-in with the Internet your only outside contact?
Yup, but it’s not like much has changed in this situation in the interim. In fact, there are claims that Dalit oppression has actually gotten worse in recent years.
[QUOTE=bldysabba]
I’m no defender of Hinduism in general, but in relative terms, I think that it’s both more benign than Islam, and that the regressive forces in Hinduism are significantly less powerful than in Islam.
[/QUOTE]
And my point is that although this claim may be true, it’s unsupported.
This whole discussion is based on a concept of “global image” which fails to take into account the fact that globally, Muslim abuses of human rights are considered “news” to a much more significant extent than Hindu and other non-Muslim abuses are.
Case in point: the abovementioned linked article from UberArchetype about forced child-marriage arrangements: although, as the article notes, such abuses actually occur in a wide range of communities, it’s headlined as a problem for “Muslim girls” specifically.
[QUOTE=bldysabba]
Indian Muslim women for instance, are on average worse off than Indian Hindu women.
[/quote]
Cite for this? In particular, cite that this is so when factors other than religion, such as socioeconomic status and education level, are controlled for?
Again, my point here is not at all to deny the magnitude or importance of human rights abuses in Islam worldwide. I’m just very skeptical that the “global image” of Islam can be trusted as a reliable proxy for the actual magnitude and importance of human rights abuses in Islam worldwide, especially as compared to other religions that aren’t considered such “hot news” globally.
See my response to bldysabba above for remarks relating to the topic of this thread, but I just had to wonder about this peculiar side issue you raised:
Even if I were a “shut-in”, are you actually under the impression that “the Internet” does not include “access to mainstream media sources”? 
Are you living in 1995?
Are you a regular subscriber to Indian newspapers, then?
I wouldn’t consider posting 12-year-old sources anything more than confirmation bias. Great example there, Kim - tied to an even more ridiculous retort.
But The Internet certainly is good for that! 