Totally right…
Well, this “Saudi idea” has so much influence that Muslim student groups in the UK have controversially attempted to enact gender segregation at their events in public universities.
Let’s get real here, Ramira. Of course not all Muslims the world over are completely separated from the opposite gender. But the idea that gender segregation is not an Islamic ideal, but merely a “Saudi idea” is preposterous. Muslim women the world over are even taught to “lower their gaze” when they encounter males, as instructed by the Koran.
Different circumstances, different outcomes.
This is a bullshit
I was not so taught, my cousines are not so taught, NO ONE was so taught in my family, in the friends AND no one of anyone I know was so taught.
This is bigotted fabrication and distortion.
Just like your fabrication about takfir, it is the promotion of the religious bigoted hatred through distortions and lies.
Cite please.
I am sure some of the idiot student activists propagandized by the Saudi financed salafiste promotion have at a time or another agitated for such measures.
This does not change that our schools in the Maghreb are not segregated by the sex, nor are the public schools in the Senegal, nor in the Mali nor in the Guinea, nor in Turkey, etc. etc. - and you can see in any street scenes there is not segregation in public, not even in the Grands Taxis with people packed like the sardines.
I will not forget one of the bigots trying to tell AK84 all women in Pakistan are in burqa and it was not believable for a woman doctor to treat male patients…
This doesn’t help
http://www.channel4.com/news/universities-uk-uuk-gender-segregation-demo-protestUnlike some in this thread I’m not quick to tar all Muslims with the same brush, which is idiotic and I wish certain posters stop hijacking this thread to run home with their beliefs that Islam is a supposed threat to Western civilisation, which it isn’t. That isn’t the debate.
It seems for the channel four article that the case is not even from the students, but an organization if I read the background correctly is indeed one of those salafiste organizations promoting a hateful barely disguised takfiri type ideology.
What can one say? these people are despicable and they try to sell the idea their warped vision is the true and pure one - both to other muslims and to non muslims.
[Cite please.
[/QUOTE]
<br /> <br />The Independent, December 2013."]The Independent, December 2013](Straight Dope Message Board - Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat;19127705).
[The Guardian, December 2013]
(Universities UK withdraws advice on gender segregation in lectures | Higher education | The Guardian).
Missed the edit window. Here’s the Independent link: It’s shameful that our universities have accepted gender segregation under pressure from the most oppressive religious fanatics | The Independent | The Independent
You need to change your signature. Promoting online business via your posts at the SDMB without prior permission is expressly forbidden. Please do so ASAP.
The claim was a general one about gender segregation in Islam and the example was schools. Even if schools are not segregated, do you deny that the sexes are segregated before Allah, in worship? A quick search tells me that only 30% or so of U.S. mosques do not segregate.
The claim was an ignorant bullshit claim about women and men segregation and not talking and meeting, not about praying.
not if, they are not. That is that.
No, sexes are not “segregrated” before God, but yes in a mosque it is usual to have women on one side, men on the other and similar. From the way we pray, I do not appreciate the idea of men looking at the asses of the women in front of them, thank you.
This of course has nothing to do the ordinary daily life or the persons completely mistaken idea about the segregation of sexes in common life and the stupid comment.
I said that the teaching was widespread, not universal. I assume that you misunderstood what I wrote, otherwise offering your personal experience as a counter-example, as if it refutes what I said, makes no sense. As someone who has shared a bed with Muslim women on multiple occasions, in one case for a stretch of several years, I am fully aware that not all of you are taught to lower your gaze (and that of those who are, not all obey). I certainly don’t think of Muslim women as some frail, weak, obedient, passionless species, as you must imagine, judging by your consistently defensive responses.
No, it is not. Muslims women are commonly taught to lower their gaze in the presence of non mehram males. This is a normal, traditional aspect of Islam.
There is no controversy whatsoever as to whether or not this is true. You have no chance of winning this debate in any kind of fact based manner, all you can hope to do is to obfuscate the issue with accusations of bigotry. But it is not bigoted to note or to be critical of a religious practice. If anything, you are the one demonstrating a lack of sympathy, by being so much quicker to defend Islam the religion than you are to admit that aspects of the religion are harmful to Muslim human beings.
As far as it being a distortion, I can see how you might think that, if you understood what I said to mean that the teaching was universal or near-universal, but that is not at all what I mean. I am certainly not trying to distort anything. The teaching is real, the direct scriptural backing is real. It exists in North America, in Europe, in Africa, in the Middle East, and in South Asia. That makes it widespread.
It is not “religious bigoted hatred” to describe things as they are, despite your typically reflexive aversion to any criticism or negative portrayal of Islam.
I abhor bigots and “Saudi financed salafiste” every bit as much as you. And I believe very strongly in religious freedom. Ultimately, we should be on the same side. So chill, and don’t assume everything critical of Islam comes from hatred and bigotry. If I say something that is wrong, tell me. Show me the evidence, and I will change my mind.
Ya Allah. Can we please have one thread where this bit of ridiculous garbage isn’t trotted out? No one here is tarring all Muslims with any brush. Your formulaic accusation towards those critical of Islam doesn’t make it true, any more than widespread outrage towards criticism or mockery of Islam turns satirical cartoons into a human rights violation.
I suggest watching the entire discussion. The video you posted is edited to demonstrate how disruptive the Talibros were. The most interesting parts of the exchange were the parts that they didn’t manage to disrupt, much of it after many had left.
One memorable moment was when the women, the Libyan law student, who was kidnapped by Islamists in Libya was visibly shaken by the behavior of the males, and explained that it was because they reminded her so closely of the attitudes of those who attacked and held her. The woman in the second row with the glasses was sure representing reasonableness like a boss.
ol All over the world; globally; throughout the world."
[/ol]
Perhaps you would prefer to amend your first statement?
Could you post the bit in those links where “Muslim student groups in the UK have controversially attempted to enact gender segregation at their events in public universities.”
I note the first two reference the Universities UK’s decision to first support, then withdraw support for its guidelines on segregated seating:
And the third one really does not support the idea of gender segregation:
Please advise if you feel I’ve missed something.
No, the phenomenon exists on all the continents except for Antarctica, and maybe South America. So the phrase works fine, as it is commonly used.
Gary, please read the text you quoted:
When an event which is open to the public, at a public university, has a female only section, that is gender segregation. If the BNP held an event in the same auditorium and had a white only section, that would be racial segregation. It’s very simple.