Nervous laughter I hope because the swing of public opinion is moving against Islam and that is not just DM readers, I am involved in local politics and talk to a wide spectrum of the local community from the far right to the far left, the centre ground is moving towards the right and this is even among our Asian community
So you gave up arguing that gender segregation is not gender segregation, but made sure to stick around and contribute some drive-by ad hominem.
Typical.
It is a big deal, but in public consciousness, Jews are associated with the tragedy of the Holocaust, and the Palestinian issue.
But who said it had to be fair?
Local prejudices combined with the global aspect of Islamic terrorism can compound the traditional prejudice against ethnic groups who are Muslim but whose intentions are nationalistic, not religious.
Agree or Disagree: Of the dominant religions in the world today, Islam is the best example of beguiling institutionalization perpetuating notions of Gawd and afterlife.
To be honest, I’m more mad at baby boomers like yourself tanking the economy.
Gender segregation by Jews does tarnish Judaism’s image. There is just so much more to tarnish the image of Islam. As I posted earlier: honor killing are supported by a majority of Muslims in Palestinian territories, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Tajikistan. And they are supported by large minorities in many more places. Saudi Arabia, Somalia, and Yemen were not surveyed.
Also, Jews are much more tolerant of mockery of their religion and prophet, and often partake of it themselves. There is no Muslim equivalent to Mel Brooks’ History of the World. If there was one which mocked Mohammed like Brooks mocks Moses, I am sure it would be branded as bigoted, hateful, ignorant, bigotry. Jews generally show more willingness to live in harmony within societies that value the freedom to criticize or mock all religions.
Plus, progressive Jews are probably the most vociferous segment, a majority, or large minority. When such groups spring up from and within Muslim communities they are attacked and heavily vilified, and continue to represent a very small fraction of Muslim organizations.
Is there any Muslims majority nation on Earth that you would would prefer to live, as an openly gay person, than Israel?
O…kay. So if this is simply a pragmatic comparison of “branding” issues and effective PR, then I don’t see the relevance of all the scolding of repressive Muslim-fundamentalist practices in this thread.
If Judaism can get away with maintaining a lot of repressive practices within its own “fundamentalist” sector because its overall “global image” is dominated by other aspects of its history, then maybe Islam just needs to work harder on its PR emphasizing other aspects of its history.
I mean, if this is ultimately all about image perception rather than underlying ethics, I don’t understand why the ethical issues are considered so important.
Well, Brooks is a secular, non-observant Jew in an overwhelmingly non-Jewish-majority society who was writing largely for a similarly secular and/or non-Jewish audience.
Likewise, there are in fact anti-theological and anti-clerical satires by secular Muslims in non-Muslim-majority societies, but they’re suppressed and punished in contexts dominated by fundamentalist Muslims.
Similarly, satires and other perceived forms of disrespect for hard-line Jewish beliefs are not typically received with tolerance among ultra-orthodox Jews. Heck, those folks even protest and vandalize public ads simply for including images of women.
So I think there’s a bit of an apples-and-oranges thing going on here: the most tolerant sectors of Jewish society worldwide are being compared with the least tolerant sectors of Muslim society worldwide.
Now, I quite agree that (so far, at least) the least-tolerant Jewish groups are significantly less powerful and less influential in Jewish society as a whole than the least-tolerant Muslim groups are in Muslim society. But I still haven’t seen any evidence that this difference should be ascribed to intrinsic religious factors rather than to a whole bunch of contingent historical, sociocultural, economic and demographic factors.
I am approaching my 73rd birthday so a little to old to be a Baby Boomer and the only thing I have tanked is a basement
Depends what particular subculture within the nation we’re talking about. If I were an openly gay person, I would certainly rather live in some left-wing subculture of, say, Indonesia or Albania, where homosexuality is not illegal, than in an ultra-Orthodox community in Israel (or in New York, for that matter).
That’s fine, because my OP wasn’t really talking about that.
Which is implied about what needs to be done to repair its image considering the opposite has entered public consciousness.
My underlying question is primarily to do with image, unfortunately, the debate has devolved into the usual fracas.
Unsubstantiated opinion and prejudice. That really is all you have, isn’t it?
Disagree. It doesn’t have anything like the coherent marketing campaign of Catholicism, or other forms of christianity. Too segmented, too much inter rivalry. Hell, look at South America. Absolutely sewn up by the christian meme.
Ah, I see. In that case, as I said, I think Islam’s “global image” is bound to improve eventually just because world media are inevitably going to become more conscious of aspects of Islam beyond Salafi terrorists and theocratic courts.
If they’re looking for suggestions to help with superficial rebranding in the meantime, though, I’d suggest a focus on food. A lot of Islamic countries have absolutely aMAZing food (though the boiled-sheep-and-rice cuisine of the Arab tribal ur-culture is not one of the highlights, IMHO).
Personally, I think sending a nice box of Persian gaz nougat to all messageboard commenters would be very image-building for Islam as a whole. My favorite flavor is rose. 
Sorry, did you miss my last reply to you?
Are you now claiming that a response like that is giving up? Try harder, there’s a…no idea, whatever you are.
It’s worth noting that Islam’s “global image” will inevitably improve as:
- The percentage of people who identify as muslim increases
- The various parties who currently benefit from Islam as a pantomime villain switch allegiance to scapegoating someone else.
- Someone comes up with a viable alternative to hydrocarbons, cutting off the supply of funds to Saudi Arabia.
You are taking the word of the people who set up the segregated event, first of all. Then you are claiming that people were free to sit anywhere they liked, which they were not, even according to the biased source that you cited.
And then you are called on it. Others point out to you that the existence of a “women’s section” means that there was gender segregation, just as a “white section” would mean there was racial segregation. And your response is to…what?..to ignore the responses showing the emptiness of your reasoning, and instead harp on about how far out, or whatever, I am, without adding anything substantive whatsoever to the discussion.
Oh aye? Why not?
You are moving the goalposts. The question was about countries, not communities.
Obviously, it is possible to find communities of Muslims that are gay-positive, and communities of Jews (in America or Israel) that are not.
As a whole, though, I would not choose Indonesia as a positive comparator. It is true homosexuality is not outlawed at the federal level. However:
Contrast with Israel, this chart makes for an interesting comparison:
Check out the full range of rights listed: gays in Israel can, for example, openly serve in the military, some bans on anti-gay discrimination, etc. None of that is true in Indonesia (in fact, much of that is rare anywhere in Asia).
Can you remind me just when it became OK for gay people to openly serve in the US army?
You always say that when you are stuck for answer