Nope
I consider it rude, especially if the person speaks English as well and you’re right there with them, but rude is rude–to really PISS me off, they’d have to be sitting with me at a dinner table conversing in my presence in their alternative language, thereby intentionally excluding me.
This wouldn’t piss me off. When you’re hanging out with people (at least when there’s more than 4-5 people) , you usually not talk to everybody else at the same time, but there are a number of different exchanges going on, each involving only part of the people present.
If some of them aren’t native speakers, and are talking to each other, it’s obvious that it will be much easier for them to express themselves in their own language. These people too are there to relax and have a good time, not to be uncomfortable and spend their energy speaking in a (for them) foreign language when it’s not necessary (especially since except for completely bilingual people, you can convey exactly what you mean, or tell jokes, or whatever only in your own language).
So, since I hope that everybody will have a good time, I find perfectly normal that from time to time they’re going to use their own language. Anyway, in most of these cases, I wouldn’t pay attention to what they’re saying if they were speaking french, because I would be involved in some other conversation.
I have some recent examples of that, and I wasn’t pissed of. What’s the most convenient for everybody wins. Actually, I find rather pleasant to hear people speaking in different languages.
Finally, in many cases, even though people happen to share the same space (for instance a group of tourists including some foreigners share a meal, but they aren’t friends or somesuch), not only they don’t have any obligation to speak a language understood by everybody, but anyway, what they’re saying is nobody else’s business. And expecting them to speak a language you can understand is IMO being rude (and not the other way around).
Actually, generally speaking, such demands are IMO rude, because they put a burden on someone else and make these people uncomfortable for no gain (apart from putting your paranoia to rest). In social occasions, everybody should feel as comfortable as possible, and “I can’t understand what they say” isn’t being placed in an uncomfortable position. Except of course if you’re completely ignored… So, yes, the non-local language speakers should make some efforts to involve other people, but whatever social gathering that is taking place shouldn’t be a pain for them, either and they should feel free to speak their own language when it’s sensible to do so.
I actually mentionned to some people who were translating to me what they were saying betwen themselves not to bother, precisely for this reason.
Finally, for people who find rude the behavior described in the OP. What about the employees speaking in english together while their customer is a spanish speaker who doesn’t unerstand english (say, a tourist). Would this be rude to (since in this case also they’re conducting an exchange in a language the customer doesn’t understand in front of him). If not, why not?
Also, what if everyboy speak english, but some speak it quite poorly, and don’t understand much of what is said, can’t really take part in the conversation, etc… would you still find it rude if they were using from time to time their own language (so that they wouldn’t be bored to death, for instance)?
I agree with the person who said that hairstylists shouldn’t be conversing with the other employees at all, unless it’s business related - like “where are the thinning shears?” or something. Pay attention to my hair!
I have had the experience of feeling talked about in Korean nail salons and I don’t think it’s paranoia. But, hey, if I want a $6 manicure, that comes with the territory. Now I pay $20 and the local girl that went to high school with my sister chats with me in English.
Doesn’t bug me at all. In fact, it makes me kind of proud that we live in such a diverse nation and that people still come here to chase their dreams just like my ancestors.
I usually don’t think they’re talking about me (I’m really not all that interesting a subject of conversation), but I do feel excluded. When I’m getting my hair cut or my nails done, I don’t like to feel excluded.
I used to manage a Supercuts type salon. Our goal was to provide the same level of service you expect at high-end salons, but provide it at a lower cost.
Our rule was that the stylists were not to engage in lengthy conversations with anyone other than their customers unless their customers were involved in it. I taught the stylists to pick-up on the clues as to who doesn’t want idle chit chat while having their hair done, and who expects that as part of the service. And the stylists were expected to adjust to each person. So the Supercuts situation of banning Spanish speaking to another stylist while working on a customer who didn’t speak spanish would have been banned in our shop also.
I would have to think that Supercuts knows that banning conversations in Spanish when not working on customers would get them in trouble. Unless things have changed, their managers are fully aware of labor laws and what could end in a lawsuit. I think this case may put the burden on the stylists to show that “dirty looks” equal an outright ban. You won’t find an outright ban on stylists speaking their own language in the break room in Supercuts policies.
When I was a manager, I knew the importance of all the stylists getting along. If some stylists made a habit of speaking spanish in the break-room, in front of other employees, and those employees complained because they felt excluded or that they were being talked about, I would suggest the spanish speakers be aware of the potential friction this could cause, and hope they made an effort not to leave the other stylists out. But I wouldn’t go any farther with it, knowing the legal problems that could arise.
One of my former co-workers was chatting with another guy in Spanish in the break room. (Former co-worker looks Mexican and speaks English with a Spanish accent, but he was born in Texas.) A (White guy) temp came into the break room and apparently ranted a bit about how they should be speaking English, since they’re in America and all. (Earlier, in the car park, this guy cornered me and implied that his Chevy Monte Carlo was a ‘better car’ than my 911. Maybe it was, for some purposes – comfort, soft ride, etc.; but given the parameters I enjoy I think he was wrong. He just oozed this ‘U.S.A.! U.S.A.! U.S.A.!’ vibe.) My co-worker reported the temp to management, and the temp was quickly gone.
Is it annoying to me when people speak a language I don’t understand? Not really. As long as they’re not pointing and laughing at me, I don’t care. I just want my hair cut, my bun thit nuong, burrito, basturma, or whatever, my car washed, etc.
I think the circumstance is important.
Two strangers sitting beside you on a bus, ignoring you, speaking another language-Not Rude.
Two strangers sitting beside you on a bus, both glancing at you while speaking another language-Very Rude. I don’t care if they’re wondering what you use on your hair and where they can get some-making conversation about someone *in their *presence while excluding them from the conversation is rude.
I think it’s more of a privacy issue than a language issue. It’s rude to subject people who are stuck in your presence to a private conversation or a conversation that ought to be private, no matter what the language.
So if they are using another language for the sake of privacy, it’s rude. They should wait until they’re alone.
If they’re using another language for the sake of comfort, it’s not rude.
The rub is, if you don’t understand the language, how do you tell? This is where different live-and-let-live philosophies come into play.
If someone is cutting your hair, they are having a prolonged business transaction with you. Ignoring you during that transaction (which is what having a conversation that excludes you does), is very rude, regardless of whether or not it affects the quality of their work.
If two other hair dressers in the same room who happen to be between clients want to converse in another language, that’s fine. But your hairdresser should not join in unless she’s willing to include you by tranlating.
Where I go most of the stylists seem to be Korean. It doesn’t bother me that they speak to each other in Korean while I’m having my hair cut, even if it’s about me, as long as my hair comes out okay. Hell, it means they’re not trying to talk to me, which is great, because the expectation of chatter makes me dread going to get the mop taken care of.
Agreed. I despise forced small talk. It takes a long time to do my hair, and I’m not interested in talking about the weather or, well, anything other than what I want done with my hair. After that, I don’t have anything to say. I don’t expect them to have to remain silent for two hours, though. Feel free to converse with other stylists in the language of your choice.
It was entirely meant to satirize the absurd paranoid fantasies of an intolerant patron (though certainly not Draelin, given her good humor).
In bad taste? Oh yes. Racist in intent? Hardly (unless you consider my disdain for white monoglot paranoiacs with self-centered delusions of being interesting enough to illicit the sly insults of foreigners “racist”).
Have I been mod-smacked regardless? Just checking.
Hey, so you’ve pulled the one-two punch as well, have you? 
Another astoundingly white-looking woman here - who speaks fluent Spanish. I’ve had a few nasty-ass comments leveled at me and then watched with pleasure as jaws dropped when I responded in their language.
It really doesn’t happen to me very often, but when it did, the looks on these people’s faces were…priceless.
I don’t give a damn. I’m not at the hair salon for a haircut, not a conversation. If they want to talk to each other while cutting my hair, go for it. If they want to do it in Spanish/Punjab/Swahili, knock yourself out. I’ve spent half my life going to hair stylists where English is not the main language, and it hasn’t bugged me one bit.
I’m another in the ‘wouldn’t bother me’ camp. As long as the person converses with me about my wishes for what I want done with my hair, nails, teeth, whatever, they can do anything they like as long as it doesn’t detract from their ability to do the job well.
F’rinstance, some barbershops have TV’s in the shop that the hair cutter can look at while they’re doing their work. Doesn’t bother me, since I’ve never had someone cut my ear off while they were paying attention to the TV with one eye. I couldn’t do it, but that would be my problem, not theirs. Likewise, as long as their attention to my hair, or other task they’re doing, is satisfactory, I don’t care if they bloody well Yodel. (Well, not much. Yodelling might be a bit much for me to sit through.)
And, like several other people here, I hate trying to make small talk with a complete stranger. I don’t mind if I’ve had the hair cutter for a while and we sorta know each other, but trying to be socialable is a task for me. So if they’re happier talking to a co-worker, even in another language, it doesn’t bother me.
This isn’t to say that I don’t understand why some people find it rude. I do. I just don’t find it so personally.
To take things further, I wonder, as others have said, how far should the conversation police go? Do we ask the hearing impaired for translations of sign-language conversations on the Metro - which if you’ve ever ridden the Metro near Galladet, you’ll recognize this as being pretty common.
Or is it improper for dental hygenists to talk about another dentist in the building that they work in while they’re working on several patients? I certainly didn’t think so. And since George* had been my father’s grad school roommate, I was familiar enough with the players to enjoy the stories. (Which, alas killed them in my presense. Which was silly - let’s face it, George was so… umm… stereotypically Jewish that he once broke into the engine compartment of a stranger’s car to disconnect the battery, because he couldn’t get into the passenger compartment to turn the headlights out. You’d think anyone who knew George would know that his friends knew, and enjoyed or at least tolerated, his foibles.)
*George’s name has been changed to protect the accused. If you think you know him, email me, and I’ll confirm or deny.
My mom goes to a local cheapie haircut place.
The ladies there are chaldean (catholic arabs.)
She is pretty sure they barely speak english.
They also are not very good hair cutters.
But they only charge her $8.
:rolleyes:
Just to add my two cents: I’m deaf, and while I can typically read lips OK when I’m with someone I know, trying to hold up my end of a conversation with a stranger is an exercise in frustration for both parties, even if it’s about something as simple as the weather. (This was, unfortunately, true when this god sat next to me and tried talking to me the other day, and it was only after the fact that I realized that his introducing himself and then going on to ask me something unintelligible might have been part of a chat-up attempt. One which fizzled rather impressively, I might add. D’oh.)
I’m… well, I won’t say I don’t have a problem with being excluded from conversations, but honestly, it’s the default state for me, and has been my entire life. A lot of the time, it’s just not worth it to stand up and demand a summary or translation of what’s going on in a language that I can understand.
So I can intellectually get why people might have a problem with not understanding conversations around them. Reading through the discussion here, it seems that part of the issue is the concern that shooting the breeze with the other employees reduces the odds of a good job being done, in addition to the rudeness factor and fear of being talked about, no?
For me, as long as the employees of whatever establishment I’m patronizing are doing their job with sufficient attention to ensure that it’s done well, they can talk however much they want in whatever language they want. I would also add that I prefer that they not point and snicker at me to my face. 
I’m not picking on you, OtakuLoki, just using this as a partial summary of the thread. This seems to be the general attitude: I don’t care, but I can see why people might.
I, personally, don’t share this level of understanding, and don’t feel there’s a real issue. Maybe I’m just so accustomed to it (Mandarin is spoken pretty much constantly around me at work) I’ve become completely inured, but I find the perception of rude behavior to be a bit ridiculous. I mean, seriously, even if two people are saying nasty things about me in a language I don’t understand, so fucking what? It’s less rude to say I’m a dirtbag in English so I do understand and can be fully aware of the affront? Or, maybe it’s better to wait until I’m out of the room to say I’m a tool in Azerbijani or whatever?
If I can’t understand what the hell is being said, I’m no more the wiser than if two people are besmirching my good name during a private conversation in the next state. Which is to say, I really couldn’t give a fuck, and I honestly can’t understand why anyone would, unless they’re truly paranoid. Oh, gosh golly, are these hairdressers making fun of my dandruff? Are they in league with the local gypsies and planning a heist?
Come on. If they’re making insults, it’s petty trash talk, and you shouldn’t give two craps anyway. If foreign-born clerks and hairdressers are likely to be casting unintelligible aspersions in your presence, you figure the English-speaking ones don’t just wait until you’re not around to harsh on you? Since you can’t do squat about the latter, why worry about the former? And, as another poster mentioned above, the vast majority of time, those folks are holding a conversation about trivial or work-related matters that have absolutely zero to do with you. They’re speaking in their native tongue because it’s easier for them, and you needn’t be concerned with the content of the conversation because they’re not talking to or about you.
I love it when that happens. Or ignore the barber and just ask to hand you the copy of El Pais
The one-two punch is one of my favorite guilty pleasures, as a not-quite-so-white looking woman who speaks fluent Spanish. Really, I’ll never understand why Spanish speakers in any major U.S. metro area think they are speaking some sort of secret language. What the hell - it makes for the occasional amusing moment.