Is it bad to call someone a nigger?

Great Debates
61

So, I take it that you will be spending a significant portion of your annual income to introduce your daughter to society when she turns 18? Every applicant for a brick-laying job should show up in a three-piece suits? Alternatively, applicants for vice-presidencies can show up in jeans and denim shirts?

There are already hundreds (perhaps thousands) of rules for different segments of society. The issue is not to rigidly force a single standard on all, but to work politely to adjust one’s appearance, demeanor, attitudes, and speech to the segment where one finds oneself.

62

A problem with polite euphemisms is that they are imprecise. On the last page Markxxx used the phrase “the B word”. I’m still wondering if he meant “bitch”.

Eschew obfuscation.

Just my 2sense

63

Oh, and what am I ( as an Anglo ) to do about hip hop lyrics?
I shouldn’t sing the “dirty” parts?

64

B word yeah it was what you think.

The thing is if the term Nigger is offensive 90% of the time I as a white person don’t use it. (yes I know I wrote it out but you have to discuss it - we can discuss things) I don’t use it ever simply is there are a lot of other words I can use.

To make matters worse when you look overseas it is all different.

We had an intern from the Netherlands. I always heard people from there didn’t like the word DUTCH or to call their country HOLLAND. SHE called the country Holland and said she was Dutch. On one of her first days one of the black women I work with said “Hey Whitey” (She was VERY pale) She sadi “Hey Darkie” and the whole room cringed. She didn’t KNOW that wasn’t PC.

My friends from overseas use the word FAG all the time (so did this Dutch girl) To Europeans and Aussies etc a FAG is a cigarette.

I said straight and the Europeans didn’t like that word as to them Straight means NOT CROOKED. A crook is BENT. Get it.

If it isn’t asked or said out of malice it seems to be OK. I asked a black coworker (I was very tan that year) if she got tan. She said sure. She didn’t think nothing of it. The white people were all like “How could you ask her that” And if anyone else wants to know yes they do.

I had one coworker who said she was terribly offended when I called goofy women a wacky dame. She said DAME was a rude word. I said what would she prefer. She said “Stupid Chick”. I think the latter is more offensive so I just stopped saying dame around her NOT because she convinced me it was wrong but out of RESPECT for her.

And that is what the “N” word comes down to. You can use it if both people have an affection and RESPECT for each other.

65

Thanks.

66

I agree with you. Were you adding to what I said or arguing with me?

67

HoldenCaulfield,
I was agreeing with you. I’m sorry if I was unclear. Your comments regarding derogatory terms in reference to homosexuals reminded me of the hurtful, non-racial/religious words in common usage.

68

So “Hey Whitey” is OK? If the black woman was joking, then I think “Hey Darkie” is the perfect response. If she wasn’t joking, the black woman is the one that commented the offense. (Not saying that two wrongs make a right.)

69

So, I take it that you will be spending a significant portion of your annual income to introduce your daughter to society when she turns 18? Every applicant for a brick-laying job should show up in a three-piece suits? Alternatively, applicants for vice-presidencies can show up in jeans and denim shirts?**
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Rules are not options. The society scene is an option. Of course the debutante crowd may think otherwise, but they are in error.
As for the brick layer analogy, I’d suggest that you over simplify. If the bricklayer goes to a board meeting, then I think he or she should dress appropriately. If the VP of an oil company goes into the field, he would be foolish to keep on the Cole Haans. The “rules” there are quite consistent.
So carrying this line of argument forward, it would be situational, not based on rank, position or ethnicity. So, you could say then that the use of a word would be based on situation. If you are joking, it would be ok. If you are angry or insulting, it would not. I can’t buy this entirely, so I feel that the word HAS NO appropriate situation.

70

I would be offended if a black person addressed me as “Hey Whitey” (I am a white thirtysomething female).

But I can’t imagine ever showing my offense to that person. I guess it would be my own personal “affirmative action”

In fact, I think I would be offended if anybody addressed me “Hey Whitey”

BUT

my Native American husband (he claims to prefer “Mohawk”, actually uses “Indian”) can say “Hey Paleface” and I have occasionally referred to him as a “crazy Indian” and his family as a “pack of crazy Indians”

It seems that racial epithets (even those referring to white people) are very nuanced and can only be used without misunderstanding among those who are very close.

I once heard a black woman say that she could never like “Winie the Pooh” stories because “Tigger” sounded too much like “nigger” and she couldn’t shake the feeling that “they” were trying to sneak in a slur.

71

I would expect all social rules to be situational. However, the class and culture and ethnic background to which one belongs very definitely creates (or, at least, informs) any situation. I think that having a single set of rules is a nice idea. I just don’t think it occurs in real life.

I think that the use of the word nigger in the U.S. carries a lot of baggage and that its use (even pronounced niggah) in any context is unfortunate. However, I do not feel that it is my place to lecture black youths (or anyone else) on its inappropriate nature. I could not see myself taking anyone to task for using it unless I saw it deliberately used as a means to intimidate someone else, (although if my sister-in-law’s husband ever uses it in front of my kids, I’m going to rebuke him). Different situations will evoke different responses. That may not be an ideal situation, but it is the way the world we find ourselves in works.

72

I think I’ll regret posting here, seeing the rections coming from some folk, but I like to say my peace on any given subject just because I can.

I’m of the mind that people can say whatever the hell they want.

It’s my belief this whole issue boils down to comfortability and relationships versus being impolite.

I will not hesitate a second in calling a friend a stupid asshole or any number of things depending on his heritage (I being the dumb Polock of the group), nor calling a female friend (black or white) a bitch for insulting me in an amusing manner. I think insults between friends is a show of of affection because you understand eachother’s flaws and you know they will stand up for you no matter what.

On that note, about a year ago I was in an argument with black guy from the deep south, and though I didn’t say anything insulting to him, (he was getting insulted by the fact that I was winning the argument) he was reduced to name-calling. He called me a honkey. I’m glad that was the last thing he said before turning and storming off, because I certainly couln’t have continued with how hard I was laughing. I can’t help but wonder why people think some things are insulting. I haven’t been truly insulted by something anybody siad to me in years.

Look here; I’m a geeky lower-middle class white guy. According to some folk here, I can’t actually say anything to any one because I don’t understand their plight. Well screw that. I work just as hard to support my family and I am just as unappreciated as the next guy, be he black, green or perrywinkle.

I have never called any of my black friends nigger, niggah, niggs, knuckhead or nincompoop. To be honest, the thought never crossed my mind. Now that you al are arguing about it, though, I’m angry. A black person can call me anything under the sun and I won’t bat an eyelash, but I have to be careful and watch what I say? Feh!!! Still, the most I’ve ever said was the always amusing “niggah pleez”, a’la Ice Cube in Boyz in the Hood (I think).
I have suffered no backlash.

Now I’m ranting, dammit!!!

73

No apology needed, HairyPotter. I should be the one apologizing for needing clarification. Reading over the message made it clearer.

I am reminded of a not so funny (at the time, a tad funny in retrospect.) I was on a city bus and I was trying to tell someone the actors in a certain movie (not sure which one, though…I think it was Jingle All the Way.) He couldn’t hear me saying Arnold Schwarzenegger over the noise of the bus. So I say it very loud and slowly. Just as I finish it gets quiet and I am yelling “Negger!” at the top of my lungs. No one hit me, but people of all ethnicities on the bus gave me dirty looks. Haven’t said his name in public since ;).

74

“A black person can call me anything under the sun and I won’t bat an eyelash, but I have to be careful and watch what I say? Feh!!!” (gorgon heap)

You have nailed it right on the head. The point is, when a minority (yes I’ll say the word) calls a white guy a racist name, he usually won’t bat an eyelash. Just doesn’t have the same effect. I don’t care how bad the inflection of someone’s voice is, if they call me a ‘honky’ I’m gonna laugh. Doesn’t have the same bite.

About the closest a white guy can get is if someone calls them a ‘pussy’(god forbid someone insult their manliness) or call their girlfriend a ‘bitch’. But a racist comment? There isn’t one that has the same meaning as the one in this thread.

Last comment on the ‘can i be a racist and try to explain my way out of it’ threads (there’s about 10 of them out there right now). I’m equating them to “I’m not racist, its just that [insert favorite saying]'s are different”, and “I’m not racist, some of my best friend’s are [insert favorite saying]”. Both a telltale sign.

75

I don’t really like the word, especially with the “er” pronounced, as to me it has connotations of slavery. But I have used it because I like to sing everywhere I go and one of my favourite artists happens to be 2Pac. This is rather similar to what dalovindj said, I suppose, but I’d like to know if this is considered offensive too? I’ve never used the n-word in any other context - although I think I would use it when quoting someone else, as in justinh’s example of quoting a Saturday Night Live skit. But I was singing a 2Pac song in Store 24 once when my Hispanic friend told me to shut up as I might get odd looks. I guess some people consider 2Pac offensive anyway, but my question is whether people who don’t consider 2Pac offensive would consider it offensive for someone to sing his lyrics? And whether this would apply equally to white people, black people, and in-between-coloured people like myself?

76

theretsof, thank you for understanding what I meant, and I’m sorry to all for the way I went off. The subject kinda annoyed me.

77

I would say that it is fine for me to call anyone by any name I please, so long as
(a) they don’t mind, or
(b) I don’t mind losing my teeth.

I call half my mates “little bstards" and “rat-shites”, but I wouldn’t dream of walking up to a stranger in a pub and calling him "bstard” as a term of endearment.

78

Posted by mistake before I’d finished…

I meant to mention Gorgon Heap, who said kind of the same thing a few posts ago, before the discussion got all bogged down again.

79

The problem is (as I believe Eddie Murphy pointed out on an SNL skit once) that “racist names” for white folks are just plain boring:
[ul]
[li]“Honky”? Sounds like a noise you make to amuse a baby.[/li][li]“Cracker”? That’s next to the jams and jellies in aisle 4.[/li][/ul]

Can’t think of any others offhand, but I don’t doubt they’re all equally dull.

There are no historical or social connotations to a “white racist name” as there are for nggr, chnk, jp, sp*ck, or what-have-you. When we finally can come up with a truly hurtful “white racist name,” then the rednecks will stop throwing slurs around and start demanding polite speech in mixed company.

In fact, the only name I can think of that you can yell at a white person and instantly get them angry is “racist” – but that doesn’t work well as a mob chant… :slight_smile:

80

Just thought I’d provide my experiences:

When in high school in the 70s, I ran track in a public school. The track team was probably 70% black, I am white. The word nigger was used regularly either as an affectionate insult, or as a direct insult about or towards a 3d party. At other times through the 80s, my black friends and I would say such things as “Don’t niggerlip that joint” or “I ain’t your nigger.”

Haven’t said it since then in black company. Don’t have as many friends of color as I had at earlier stages in my life. I admit that I rarely use the word, as well as “jew down,” “gyp,” and other perjoratives. I also tend to swear a lot.

I agree with the comments that you can say whatever the hell you want, you’d just better be aware of your audience and the potential consequences.