Not* niggardly* **Guin **, which is an adjective, but niggard, meaning miser (from Websters). When I first heard the two words, back in the 50’s, I assumed they were racial slurs akin to Indian giver. They are related thus in terms of how the word’s intent may be interpreted, or misinterpreted whether the intent of the speaker is mischief or not. In any event, another dimension to the discussion of why a legitimate word is inappropriate has been added.
Oh for the love of cheese, grienspace, who cares?
You do evidently, and I couldn’t ignore your incorrect response regarding bad grammer. Fighting ignorance and all that you know.
this is an easy question to answer. as an american of african descent i have grownup with the word and all its subtelties. the rule is-- between black people it is ok and is taken as a term of endearment. the proper pronunciation is “niggah” and “nigger” should be avoided. white people, even “cool” white people, should stay away from “nigger” when addressing afro-americans. when whites are in the company of whites i don’t know what happens. any whites want to clue me in?
I am not sure about that. Could you please post or make citation of such derivation? As far as I know, the word nggr DOES NOT come from the Spanish Negro or French Negre. The English equivalent is Black or Negro (as in Kneegrow).
XicanoreX
Yes, David Howard, except it was just over two years ago. He was an aide to the mayor of Washington. Anyway, he was rehired after the uproar.
theretsof,
this is a debate page, I use a subject that will start a debate (in 6 words or less). if you will read my comments and not just the subject you will see that I :
dont’ use the word “nigger” in any company, unless quoting something to people (white and black) that I know so that it wouldnt hurt anybody (or get me hurt). but I refuse to call it the Nword. I don’t use “friggin” or freaking either. when you use it, everyone translates it to what I was thinking anyway.
don’t advocate bombing abortion clinics. or anything else. my post was concerning active vs. passive morality
would not use lethal force in a breakin except to protect my family’s safety. and those who think they would should examine the real facts of the aftermath of such a horrible thing.
dont’ advocate denouncing Israel for $1 gas. I must admit that I don’t think peoples attitudes towards Israel is realistic (they are surrounded by disgusting,wandering , godless hatemongers). its easy to say “yes I support Israel or no I think it is wrong…” but when you examine all the issues then its not so clearcut.
Its so easy to say this or that and express your beliefs as such. but if you examine the reality of the situation most people’s beliefs are tempered by the situation. ie. everybody wants the terrorist wiped off the face of the earth but what happens when innocent civilians are killed then will we temper our hate?
I thought that was the benefit of a debate. not to change any body’s hardcore beliefs but to make people think and re-evaluate .
one last thing. I do like a fight better than a “lets kick the terrorist’s ass” discussion. so I might say something in the future that will raise some hackles. (I have asked if the US should bomb Israel’s nuclear sites. just to point out the cost of Israel being left out to dry and overrun by the evil neighbors).
I ramble sometimes (really!) so if I seem to be saying something completely insane please call me on it and see if I am communicating poorly or just a jerkoff.
Knowing quite a lot of black people from every educational to economic gambit I can say it even can be bad for a black to use the word to another black person.
But here is what I have observed.
If used as an adjective it isn’t offensive and used a lot. A coworker once said. “Oh please that 'cause you ain’t got no nigger hair.” “oh that man always be talking that nigger talk around here.” etc.
Black people will use it as an insult but not a nasty one. On a coworker seeing a guy well buildt." “That man think he hot, he don’t know he just an old nigger.”
When they really hate someone I have yet to see a black person use that term. Though the B word comes up a lot.
Interestingly in the 40s during WWII the Chicago Tribune used to use the word “NEGARR” and “NEGGAR”
I wonder if that was an attempt to downplay the nigger word or was it in common usage?
The thing is it isn’t proper for a white person to use it. Just like it isn’t offensive for a gay person to use the word FAGGOTT or FAG but it is very offensive (to me it’s the same as the word Nigger) for a straight person to use the word Fag or Faggot.
On a final note…Question… I live in a Puerto Rican neighborhood and they use it a lot and it must mean something different. Because the greet themselves with the term “Hey Nigger how’s it going” all the time. They aren’t black but they use the term for each other. I have even had Puerto Ricans come up to me in a bar and say “Hey you one fine looking nigger”, and I’m white so it must mean something else to them
markxxx,
how insensitive of you! you typed in the “Nword” about 6 times.
you are a bsa*d. hope that hurt.
The word is fascinating, besides the negative rascist associations we also have people using this word positively, as a term of endearment. No wonder people are confused.
I worked in the Bahamas for some time and I am as white as white can be. Most of the people I hung out with were black and they often called each other “niggah” in greeting as in “Hey niggah, what’s up?”.
I was puzzled thinking that calling someone this word would entitle the speaker to an ass whipping of gargantuan proportions. This was not the case as the word was indeed used in an endearing sense between friends.
My buddy Dave (black) and I discussed this at length one night and he told me that to him, there was nothing wrong if the word was used between friends. So I asked if was okay for me to call him that (since we were friends), he said sure. He called me lots of things that made fun of my glow in the dark complexion 
I met up with him a few nights later, I remember walking into the pub and passing by two guys with HUGE belt buckles, big hats, and cowboy boots. Dave was with a few other guys I knew and called out “HEY WHITE BOY!” and I replied “Hey niggah, what’s up?” Dave has a really deep voice and the effect on these good old boys was priceless. They started looking for the door as they were probably thinking I was going to get maimed. They looked genuinely terrified.
I commented to them that things were okay and sat down with Dave and the guys. we proceeded to have our usual good time, sucking back beer and playing pool.
I never made it a habit after that to call Dave anything but Dave since I was aware that other people outside of our small circle might misunderstand and see it as something offensive. I was deeply touched just before I left when he greeted me with “Hey niggah!”
Everyone’s allowed to say it (African-Americans have the same rights as everyone else in America last time I checked.) Is it bad? No. Will some find it offensive? Yes. Will some people get in trouble for saying it? Yes. Is it a good idea to say it? Probably not.
Even if you don’t find it offensive, be selfish and think what might happen to you if you say it (whether others might pound your face in, or those you respect may respect you less.)
I’m offended by very little (and the things I am offended by are very strange) but I can see how certain words are associated with certain times in history, past experiences, and strong emotions. I don’t find the word offensive, but I wouldn’t get down on someone that did. Personally, I think its strange that the words ‘faggot’ or ‘fag’ in reference to a homosexual aren’t considered as offensive as the other word in question, considering their origin (the worst story I have ever heard.)
Picture, if you will, slave purchasing southerners (Rednecks) upon hearing the local slaveship captain from Spain saying, “Los Negros…”.
Redneck replies,“those niggers(?!?)…)”
Also as a biline: I challenge anyone to scientifically prove the existence of ‘Race’ as it applies to Homosapien. Race is a state of mind, not being. Genus is a state of being. Pretty much all differences in appearance of the homosapien come from climatic variances of the region in which our peticular ancestors ascended. I find the idea of Race abhorrant
Words have meaning in contexts only. They communicate effectively if the meaning intended is similar enough to the meaning received.
Reading Huck Finn to your kid, with serious discussion about the time and place and the growth of Huck’s and Jim’s relationship … okay to say the word.
Two African-Americans laughingly to each other … okay. Even angrily to each other.
To mean “I worked like a slave.” Offensive and a evidence of a racist mindset. Evokes a vulgar negative stereotype.
A white to say jokingly to a black someone who you do not KNOW will take it in that way coming from a white’s mouth… offensive, until proven otherwise.
Duh.
Justinh, are you really surprised to realize that words have power? Rhetoric that implies a less human status, implies justification for oppression and fosters prejudgement. We can debate the causes and solutions, but since in this country a large percentage of young black males are either in jail, on probation, or dead, and since minimally, past oppression had a role in creating such a current circumstance, rhetoric that fosters the oppressor/oppresed mindset is of course offensive.
And, as has been pointed out, the same applies for other racial and ethnic slurs.
BTW, The entymology is cited from the Middle French from Spanish or Portugese by Merriam-Webster Online:
Sorry, what I meant was as in conversation. If he’s talking about racism, that’s something else. If he’s going up to Condi Rice and say, “Hey, wazup ma nigga?” or calling a friend, “Eh, nigga, how are ya?” THAT would be a little too out of it.
Like hearing the Queen Mum singing a Spice Girls tune or something.
The use of any word as a prejudiced slur against a social group offensive, inconsiderate, and uncivilized. The selfish or the immature can wonder “gee, words shouldn’t have that kind of power” or “if I don’t intend it to be an insult, then it’s the responsibility of the listener to see that I’m not trying to be offensive” to their heart’s content, but that doesn’t change a basic “rule” for proper social intercourse. The U.S. has experienced divisive racial cultural practices throughout it’s existence and it is both reasonable and healthy for people to work very hard to avoid behaviors that contribute to racial prejudice.
You say its not a sacred word, yet you seem afraid to write it out.
“Nigger.”
It’s just a word; don’t let it come off as more than what it is.
That said, many (most, even) would take offense to it, and with good reason considering what it represents.
My policy while substituting in Lynnwood, CA (probably 65% Latino, 35% black) was that if I (White Guy) couldn’t say a word, the students didn’t get to say a word. This way I couldn’t be accused of fostering a bad atmosphere, and made it very clear that I wasn’t tolerating it because of some kind of secret joy in hearing the black kids get called that.
Then there was that kid who just couldn’t quit doing it. It had entered his vocabulary on such a deep level that he kept doing it repeatedly even after being emabarrassed about screwing up again, and generally striking me as trying to be cool for the sub.
And then…
There’s the principal who basically tried to reprimend me for referring to a student as “Not you, the black girl in the pink sweater.” Since only about 6 kids in the room were black, I thought that made a decent identifier (I didn’t know the names).
I still don’t agree with that one. And when the girl tried to tell the principal that I had said to get her “black ass out here”, I got UPSET. Her 6th grade mind took my “get out here, go to the other classroom, and be my punished example for the rest of the class” attitude and translated it into very specific language.
That’s when I was glad I had a history of prohibiting “N” in my classrooms. I could indignantly reply that I was the one who was always telling kids not to say things like that.
There just can’t be different rules for different segments of society. We need to all follow the same rules. It’s too confusing and devisive any other way.
It seems to me that some in the African-American community try to destroy the potency of the word by embracing it i.e. NWA (Niggers With Attitudes IIRC). Well, how then to insult these uppity N… wait they’re already calling themselves that. Well, what the hell do we call them to show our narrow-minded, irrational hatred and fear? We been using that same slur for over a hundred years, we can’t just make up another!
I have perceived a similar situation in my own ethnic group. Coon Ass is a slur against Acadians. It came from the French word conase (sp?), that the continental French in WWII used to refer to Acadian interpreters. The word had connotations of lower class, working class or uneducated folk. Though meant as an insult, the Acadians adopted it and it became “Coon Ass” b/c most Anglos couldn’t/wouldn’t pronounce it correctly anyway.
To my point; if a Thibodeaux, Comeaux, or LeBleu calls me a Coon Ass, it’s a joke or mild insult. If a Smith, Stein or Reyes does, there may be trouble. Basically, slurs are generally considered OK if just a joke and nothing is meant by them. But, if one does not belong to the group being slurred, listeners have little assurance that the view being expressed, though prehaps joking in tone, is not sincere in its venom.