It is probably the most offensive word in the English language. What you’ve observed is people who use offensive words in everyday speech. That does not make it inoffensive to people who don’t use offensive language.
If you are not black, you are absolutely prohibited from using the word. Don’t use the word or people are going to be offended. Is it fair that black people get to use the word but white people can’t? Yes, it is a tiny little bit unfair. If that is the most unfair thing to ever happen to you, count yourself lucky.
Or, what the hell, go ahead and use the word as much as you want. It’s your life. Just don’t be surprised and upset when people think you’re an idiot.
I’ve been exposed to a lot of rap music and I hear “Nigga” used constantly, both in a complimentarty and non-complimentary context. Heck, the first rap I ever heard was by a group that called themselves “Niggers With Attitudes” (NWA).
So…it is obvious to me that the debate over use of the word is not so black and white. To answer the OP, it is both “OK” and “not OK” to call someone a “Nigger” or “Nigga”, depending on the context and who is saying it.
It’s a judgement call.
Years ago I developed a friendship with a black hard-core ex-felon. One day I called him a “Nigger” and this guy fell off his chair laughing…after he wiped the tears from his eyes he told me he loved me.
“Nigger” can be a term of endearment.
Is it bad to call someone a niggard?
justinh, I’m sitting here wondering why you felt the need to use “ignorant slut” or “cunt”, words you would not use in everyday speech and one of which you say you’ve never even typed until now in a post addressed to me. I understand you don’t mean them to insult me personally. You couldn’t because you don’t know me. Still, it doesn’t help your case, and I’m not honored by your use of them in a post to me to illustrate a point that words are words and that they should not have the power to hurt. They do. And placing the onus of responsibility for just accepting words as not insulting on the person who is being insulted is not a valid excuse for using them either. You say that the word lost its power for you, but I presume you’re not black so it never had the power to insult you that it does for black people.
As I said before and unfortunately will probably have to say again in my lifetime, it’s the thought behind the conscious effort to USE them, that I find disturbing and offensive. Yes, language is alive, and meanings evolve, but right now and probably until we Americans resolve the racial issues and miscommunications that very much inform the psyche of our country, racial slurs like the N word and insults like “ignorant slut” and “cunt”, which you say you don’t use, but in essence just have, do have the power to hurt. It’s a funny thing, but words that have the connotation of insult don’t stop being insulting just because the user doesn’t feel that they are insulting. Please rethink your position.
Oh, and gobear, it’s not just uneducated blacks who use the N word. Educated blacks use it to, but they use it wisely and in a specific context, and some of them probably don’t use it wisely. I will concede your point though. It wouldn’t be professional for Colin Powell or Condolezza Rice to use the N word in their professions, but that doesn’t mean they can’t or won’t use them in another context. Of course I don’t know Powell or Rice, and neither do you, so we can’t definitively say what language they or any other black person, educated or uneducated, would or would not use.
My two bits…
I personally don’t use it because I think it’s grossly offensive and rude, but my general rule of thumb is that anyone can use any word if it’s acceptable in the context when it’s being used.
Some folks have said “it’s okay for a black person to use ‘nigger’,” but I’d simply extend that to “it’s okay for anyone to use ‘nigger’ if it’s acceptable at the situation.” Granted, a lot of examples(*) of “acceptable use” involve black speakers (Chris Rock being the prominent example at the moment), but I don’t think it’s proper to use a speaker’s skin color to say whether he can/cannot use the word. If five white guys and five black guys hang out together and everyone agrees to call each other “nigger” and “cracker”, that’s their business.
As with other potentially offensive words, of course, when in doubt, don’t.
[SUB](* = Another example of “acceptable use” that comes to mind is from the movie Rush Hour. Chris Tucker is taking Jackie Chan around Los Angeles, and at one point goes into an all-black bar. Tucker greets them by saying, “How’s it going, my nigger?”, and nobody bats an eye. When Chan tries it five minutes later, a fight erupts.)[/SUB]
I have been in situations where the word is used casually. It is spread all over hip-hop and me and my friends shout out lyrics when we’re hangin’ together. That word is in a few of my favorite songs (ref. - “Sucka Nigga” A Tribe Called Quest). I’ve seen white guys and black guys hangin’ out and using it in a non-derogatory way with each other and no one gets pissed off.
I would say the above is the exception and not the rule. It is not offensive because we know each other very well, share a cultural (pop) background, and know that none of us is racist. For the majority of people the word is very offensive. I myself find it extremely offensive when used as a mean-spirited, bigoted, insult. However, that is not the only way to use the word. But I am in the “intent is important” camp (which is not very popular around here).
Important to remember is the company you’re in and those who are within earshot of you. If it’s just your friends and none of you care, then fuck it. No harm no foul. But if there are strangers around, or people you know don’t share your view on the subject, it is best to refrain. You should do this out of politeness and empathy, really. But if you need more persuasion you should also refrain for fear of physical retribution. That word gets quite a few people fighting mad, and rightly so.
Basically, if you use it, don’t use it here since it is generally considered offensive regardless of the intent. For the same reasons I refrain from using “Gay” to mean “Lame”. While I know I have no ill-will towards homosexuals, the word is offensive to people I respect. So when in their presence (On the SDMB), I leave the word out.
DaLovin’ Dj
You, being black, would have a wider circle of acquaintance than I, but I assure you that the people I know don’t use That Word, anymore than they would use the MF-Word. YMMV.
I don’t know Colin Powell, but having read his book, listened to his speeches, I can’t conceive that he or Ms. Rice would talk like that. I shall have to ask my DoD friends who DO know him their opinions.
:rolleyes:
NO. He’s an idiot, that is no more an acceptable context than to walk up to a black man and say “You’re fucking nigger.” It is still a use of the word relying on a racial slur. That it applies the slur in a more general manner does not make it any less offensive. A direct analog is using the phrase “He jewed me down” to mean “he made me lower the price”. If the idiot wanted to say he felt like a slave, he could say he felt like a slave. Similarly, the term “nigger-rigging” to mean jury-rigging is also unacceptable.
Niggard or niggardly are a completely different word with no connection in origin to nigger, and thus should be acceptable. Unfortunately, uneducated people see that it sounds too much like nigger and sometimes react as if you used the slur. Thus it is probably best to avoid it to avoid arguments and hassles. Besides, it is a bit old-fashioned.
celestina,
I only used those words to show an example of a word that while hideous is still typeable. no disrepect to you. I would never call someone any of these words unless I wanted to hurt them.
I have got to learn that you have to put all your points in the OP because most people (mostly those ms and cs) dont read all my futher musings.
my only point of this whole thread, which I have butchered, is that a word should be printable.
gobear, yes I am black, I code switch quite frequently, and I have a wide circle of black acquaintances, rich, middle class, and poor, educated and uneducated, old and young, who code switch and code mix to a great degree as well. I think it’s great that you and your friends don’t clutter your vocabularies with such an offensive word as the N word. All I was saying is that we really cannot make generalizations about what kinds of black folks use what kinds of language.
I would love to be a fly on the wall and see someone ask Colin Powell if he’s ever used the N word. 
Please do ask your DoD friends who know Powell what kind of language he uses and let me know, but I do have to wonder if they would know, especially since I imagine they wouldn’t associate with him too much outside of the workplace, and if they do associate with him outside the workplace, I’d still wonder if he’d feel the comfort level one must feel with one’s associates to break down and use Vernacular. I don’t think he would really break off into Black Vernacular or use the N word at work, but who knows?
Well, educated or uneducated, the word shouldn’t be used. The word should be taboo. If blacks use the word, then there will ALWAYS be the crowd that says, “well if they can use it, I can use it.”
Now, if the point of this thread is to ask when, if ever is it appropriate to vocalize the word in any form, I will say that during the discussions of the Simpson case, I never shied from saying the word AS IT APPLIED TO THE LEGAL MATTER OF THE CASE. Let me clarify for those who may try to misread this. When discussing the evidentiary matter of Mark Fuhr-Man’s testimony, I didn’t reduce my speech to call it the “N-word”. These discussion were in the place of mixed company. The word was never used to describe anyone and it was only used in context of the direct quote of the exchange between the witness and F Lee Baily/Marcia Clark (as well as the tapes). When we discussed the concept of allowing such a question to be asked (moving away from the specifics of the case), the language tended to go toward “The N’Word” or “Racial Ephitat”. I felt this was appropriate. It was a direct quote from the case. Anyone disagree with me here? Was my group in error? It’s not like sitting around reciting Chris Rock as an excuse to say it.
[tangent]
I just read the Chris Rock link. I know I said it was innappropriate for anyone to use the word, but that guy is funny.[/tangent]
But, in general, no one should use that word. If someone (a white guy) hadn’t used that word, the group would have had no excuse to use it.
The OJ Case does bring another facet to the discussion. Is that word, or any other racial ephitat, so powerful that it would preclude a member of the offended minority group from lending ANY credibility to the witness (or person) who uses it in a negative (or any) manner?
:rolleyes:
grien, the word niggardly is totally unrelated. It wouldn’t make SENSE to call someone a niggard, it would be poor grammar and stupid, like calling someone a mildew or a dust.
Personally, I cannot picture Colin Powell using the N-word. It would be too surreal.
Just when I thought this discussion couldn’t get any worse and OJ Simpson is brought up. [sigh]
Yes, the N word shouldn’t be used, watsonwil, but the reality is that the N word is used by folks of all kinds of cultural backgrounds in America. Some folks use it as a means of establishing solidarity; some use it in ignorance; and some use it to hurt others. I think that we’ve established that black folks can and do use it, but if they are not careful about how and with whom they use it, then they may well be subject to some physical repercussions. It is rare that non-blacks can use the N word around black people and not offend them. Whether or not black people use the N word, it should not give non-black people license to go spouting that word off to black people, whether they know them or not. I have non-black and black friends whom I consider to be family–they are that close to me–but they would never, ever call me the N word, and I would not use a racial slur with them either. We know each other well enough to respect the fact that there are just some lines you don’t cross no matter how well you think you know someone. Just because one person decides to do X does not mean that another person has to jump on the bandwagon and do X too, especially if s/he doesn’t understand the context or the historical underpinnings for doing X.
As far as you and your friends discussing the evidentiary matter of Mark Fuhrman’s testimony, I really cannot comment on the particulars of that situation because I was not there with you and could not see the reactions of the “mixed” company. If I were there and folks were quoting Fuhrman’s use of the N word, I think that I would still find it offensive because racial slurs are just plain offensive. But then, I found the whole televised spectale of the Simpson trial offensive. In fact, I equated the whole televised Simpson trial with being nothing more than a modern day lynching bee. Do some research on the lynching bees that used to take place in the South during the first part of the 20th Century to see what I mean. It was literally a family affair. [shudder] I don’t know if justice was done or not; I don’t know if Simpson was guilty or not. I just thought that televising that trial was inappropriate because it lowered what should have been a serious investigation of the horrendous murders of two people to the level of entertainment. I have served on juries before, and it is difficult enough ensuring that the plaintiff and the defendant receive a fair trial based on orderly proceedings that EXCLUDE all but those involved in presenting and analyzing the evidence. With the televising of the Simpson trial, audiences could sit back in the comfort of their homes and be titillated by a replay of history: watching a black man accused of murdering a white woman be tried and hoping to see him hang for it. But I digress. In your discussions of Furhman’s testimony, why not say Mark Fuhrman called blacks the N word, and then after that refer to it as his use of racial epithets?
watsonwil said:
“Is that word, or any other racial ephitat, so powerful that it would preclude a member of the offended minority group from lending ANY credibility to the witness (or person) who uses it in a negative (or any) manner?”
Well I can’t and won’t speak for all minorities, but MY answer to this question is YES. For someone to refer to a member of another culture with a racial epithet within or even outside of the boundaries of his/her professional setting is a sure sign that they do not respect the minority as a person and cannot be trusted to treat that minority in a fair manner.
For further reference, n*gger comes from French nègre, from Spanish negro, meaning the colour black. Niggard comes from Scandinavian.
Didn’t someone lose their job last year because their use of the word “niggardly” was misinterpreted?
“Personally, I cannot picture Colin Powell using the N-word. It would be too surreal.” (Guinastasia)
I heard Powell say the word yesterday in a (taped) interview. He was explaining his first day in the South on his way to the Military Academy, and how he had to go to the alley so they could pass the hamburger to him thru the back kitchen door. The restaurant owner wouldn’t let him sit in the restuarant (b/c he was a …).
“I have posted this on a couple other threads. We use all sorts of words to describe one another and it usually says more about the person using the word than the person it is directed at.” (justinh)
Indeed it usually does day more about the person using the word(s). Here are some of your posts…
“Is it ok to bomb abortion clinics”
“Lethal response to home breakin”
“Denounce Israel for $1”
…and of course
“Is it bad to call someone a nigger”
Says all I need to know.
oops
I don’t think this has been established at all. Some of us are saying that they shouldn’t. If by “can use it” you mean use it without getting hit or berated, then yes I guess that is true. But I will say if the word is thrown about conversationally, I look down my nose (Mr. Snooty, here) at the user regardless of color. So it isn’t the physical repercussions, but some societal repercussions that follow.
Although I used the same rule around friends as I did in this case, the instances I was talking about were in a classroom setting. It was awkward at first, and we all danced around the issue. I took my lead from the professor. (He was a white man, but he was an ACLU lawyer…) It wasn’t like we were just dropping the N-bomb left and right (though I felt there was one guy who spoke up simply to say that word in public).
Was the use of the phrase “mixed” offensive to you?
Of course this isn’t similar because Cochran and Shapiro requested a televised trial. No, the public display was not about race, it was about fame and greed of lawyers. I say this with the utmost contempt for a profession to which I belong.
Some did. But when discussing his exact words, it was innaccurate to clean it up. Baily didn’t ask him if he had said the “N word”. The word is actually mentioned in a few cases we read in law school.
I tend to agree. His epithet was what single handedly ruined the prosecution’s case.