I know regular AR-15s are semi-auto, but if the bolt is changed to a “full-auto style”, will that make it M-16ish?
This part is available many places, here is one: <here isn’t one>
Carrier Design
M16 Full Auto Style
I am guessing it can’t be this easy?
It’s easy to do. Also easy to rob a convenience store. I mean, you just get a gun, walk in there, hold the clerk at gunpoint. Just don’t let the clerk reach for his own gun, it’s pretty easy.
But, just like robbing a convenience store, if you get caught making a machine-gun you will likely go to prison for a substantial amount of time.
Converting an AR-15 to fully automatic doesn’t quite make it an M-16 because there’s still no fire selector switch for semi - you’d now have just full auto and safe - and there are no doubt dozens of small differences a true gun nut would notice. But in general, you’d likely have a reliable automatic weapon that would be your ticket to prison if anyone found out and informed the police.
Oh, also, changing the bolt will not make the weapon fully automatic. There is a part down in the trigger assembly called a “sear” that limits the weapon to semi-automatic fire. It is possible to replace this part with a full auto one, and there are still drop in sears that are from prior to the automatic weapon ban available for thousands of dollars on the market.
It would be possible, if you had the exact dimensions of the part in a computer file, and such files are no doubt floating around on the dark web and other sources, to program a CNC mill to machine this component. Pretty easy. It’s also supposedly possible to modify the existing sear in a way that will allow fully automatic gunfire.
There are also books that explain step by step how to make a machinegun from scratch with basic shop tools. And I can think of a number of other ways you could make one - for example, you could build a servo motor driven trigger for your rifle that would pull the trigger very rapidly, at similar firing rates to a machinegun.
Anyways, the law for this is quite easy to break and it’s also quite easy for people to inform on you to the ATF. In fact, if some of your friends were facing charges for other more serious crimes, and they knew you had done this, they could trade the information for a reduced sentence for themselves.
So I wouldn’t recommend anyone to do this. There’s not a whole lot of gain and a whole lot you can lose. If you did want to shoot a machinegun, I suggest either you enlist in the military or you go to various commercial ranges where they have some of these weapons for rent. (I’ve heard there’s one in Los Vegas)
From the times I got to fire one in the military, I was not particularly impressed. The muzzle will jump all over the place and you quickly realize that a machinegun is not a particularly accurate weapon and a 30 round magazine lasts a lot less time than you think. For a self defense scenario, you want accurate shots. You want the *first *2-3 shots you fire to all hit the torso of your attacker, because he or she may have their own gun and be in the process of shooting back. If there are multiple opponents, you want to cap each attacker with a couple of shots that actually hit instead of spraying your whole magazine into the ground or air on full auto and then be standing there with an empty weapon while they kill you.
But, as SamuelA said, mechanically it’s not terribly challenging to make an AR-15 fully automatic (most basically-competent garage mechanics or gun enthusiasts could probably accomplish it with modest effort), but it is fraught with legal peril. DO NOT DO UNLESS YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF FEDERAL PMITA PRISON!!!
To be fair, allegedly Federal prisons have a lot less ass-pounding than state. Realistically if you were busted for manufacturing a machinegun, you’d probably only suffer being locked in a cage with little to do most of the time but do menial chores. Probably only basic cable and you risk a shivving if you change the channel in the shared TV rooms. And a few years of low quality food - about like a high school cafeteria except sometimes the other inmates probably get hair or snot in your food.
But you probably won’t get anally raped. Probably.
I guess Club Fed lives on.
Yep, illegal.
Well, yes, it does. Here’s where Michael Cohen will likely do his time.
However, I suspect someone manufacturing a machinegun might be seen as a more dangerous inmate than the rogue’s gallery of white collar fraudsters that end up in this joint. I don’t know for sure, I could research it.
As they say, “Full-auto turns money into noise.”
I’ve also shot an M-16. Emptied the mag in a couple seconds. I’m glad I did it (was a bucket list item), but I don’t have any desire to do it again. Was pointless, and a waste of ammo.
If you really want a full-auto weapon, you can legally buy one; there’s a market for ones manufactured before 1986. Better have a fat wallet, though.
For me it is just a curiosity question. I can imagine that full auto would, as you say SamuelA, go right over their heads and not be terribly effective. Just trying to understand some of the nuances of the gun debate. This seemed like one of those things that it would be good to nail down (the factual basis of it).
Thanks!
A better question, if that’s your actual vector of thought, is to ask ‘why aren’t more weapons converted since it’s so easy?’, especially wrt criminals. You watch the movies and Rambo et al seem to get a lot out of those automatic weapons, so why don’t we see more criminal types who, presumably don’t mind the idea of going to jail (being criminals and all) getting their weapons converted? It’s pretty obvious that most law abiding citizens don’t do this. Part of that is the whole going to jail thingy, but there are several other things that make it…sub-optimal, let’s say…for criminals and law abiding citizens alike, though there are some different reasons as well.
[Moderating]
We do not promote illegal activity on this board. Let’s not link to any of these products until and unless we first establish that they’re legal.
I’ve never seen the mechanism of an AR-15. But I’ve seen an M16-A1 (full auto) and an M16-A3 (three round burst), and it would be trivial to turn the latter into the former.
Certainly sound advice generally, but the item that was linked to in the OP is perfectly legal to own
For various degrees of “easy”, perhaps. There is no sear in a semi-auto AR-15, so there is nothing to modify. Adding a sear involves extremely precise drilling of the AR-15 lower receiver, and milling out the sear block. It’s possible to find older AR-15s with no sear block, but they’re not cheap. And you still need to either machine up a Drop In Auto Sear DIAS, or use a regular sear, and do some drilling. Either way, it takes knowledge, skill and equipment. Additionally, you would need a full-auto trigger assembly and a full-auto bolt carrier. A standard AR-15 does not have the proper disconnects to make full-auto.
There are other ways, such as Lightning Links. But with those, you need to find a very specific, older model lower bolt carrier and lower receiver. If you find that, then you’d need to obtain a Lightning Link. They’re tiny pieces of metal that are sold as registered machineguns, so they’re just as hard to buy as a machinegun. They are simply pieces of metal, though. But again, machining these pieces yourself takes knowlege and skill and the right machining equipment. You’re not going to do it with tin snips.
So, it’s quite difficult to actually convert an AR-15.
Yes, but an M16 with 3 round burst is legally a machinegun. If you can legally own the latter, you can legally own the former. So, the fact that it can easily be made full-auto from 3-round burst is pretty irrelevant.
WRT the item linked in the OP.
A full-auto bolt carrier is legal to own. The difference is that a full auto bolt carrier is able to engage the sear to allow full auto. A regular AR-15 bolt carrier has that area cut out, so it can’t engage a sear. This doesn’t really matter because there isn’t a sear to engage anyway. It’s just one extra thing in a long list of things that would be needed to do a conversion. Because it does not make the gun easily or readily convertible to full-auto, they are perfectly legal to own.
And a 3 round burst is also mechanically a full auto, except that it has extra/modified parts to stop the firing after the 3rd round. Remove/modify those parts, and it’s full auto. Very different from what you’d have to do to convert semi to full. So think of 3 round burst as a scaled down full-auto, not a scaled up semi-auto.
This is correct. Doing it right requires knowledge, skill, equipment, and parts. BATFE takes a dim view of weapons that can easily be converted to full auto. BATFE technical branch, among other duties, tests and classifies weapons before they are offered for sale in the US. Anything that actually can be easily converted is swiftly banned for sale. Don’t believe me? Tell me how many newly manufactured open bolt firearms are legally offered for sale in the US. If the AR15 was as easily converted as some would have you believe, it would have gone the way of the open bolt.
The m249 was my assigned weapon for quite a few years. You can actually be incredibly accurate with one but what’s the point in putting 20 shots on a single point target.
2 each in a line of silhouettes took a little practice but wasn’t too difficult.
That said it is the SAW or squad automatic weapon, generally intended to provide either suppressing fire or eliminate a group from at least a somewhat stationary position. Leaving others to be picked off by single fire.
Thing is we are talking about things happening at 150+ meters generally.
It also uses a lot more than 30 round clips. Though, individual qualification with one doesn’t allow for a whole lot more shots missed than individual qualification on M16/M4.
Auto just doesn’t fit with common self defense scenarios.
Keep in mind those laws were mostly enacted in the first place to get rid of Tommy guns from gangsters, while they seemed to be a favorite, they weren’t worth the high penalty with something so easily proven, and they switched from throwing hundreds of rounds into cars out in the open to just capturing and killing in private, helping to keep the general public out of the crossfire.