Is it ever OK to deal with verbal aggression by more in kind?

[zweisamkeit]

@Arglefraster

Pretty much the same thing as the polite request for the error message (screaming, insults, and hanging up on me). FTR, my boss is pretty understanding, and I never got in trouble for his little rants when I was trying to be polite. In this particular customer’s case, though, it’s just easier for everyone involved if I use the “I’m gonna be just as pissy as you” method of customer support.

I’ll back you up on this. I mean, there’s only a handful of people I’ve helped who are like this (less than 1% of the people), but they really do want you to act like a jackhole back at them. It’s bizarre.

One guy who I ended up speaking to very aggressively said, “awright! Thanks a lot!” instantly chipper after I turned into a jerk. This same guy, when a co-worker was remoted onto his computer to try to fix his problem, kept taking the mouse control away. Finally, co-worker (who has the patience of a saint), said, “[name], *take your hand off the mouse so I can do my job!”. At that point, guy stopped bitching and even said, “I like you, [co-worker]; you take charge!”

Oddballs are everywhere.

[constanze]

One aspect I like about Buddhism is the stress on the Middle-of-the-Road approach as being best: not complete ascetism, not complete partying.

In this subject: there’s a wide middle between being a doormat and letting jerks walk over by continuing with nice; and spitting insults back.
That’s being firm without being rude.

As for the OP - most humans try to control their anger and grapple with it (except for the jerks, who don’t care about the effects of their behaviour on other people, or are clueless about it - they aren’t bothered by it). That’s one of the things that made the TV series about the Hulk so interesting, because most people know how it feels like to get angry enough to stomp around and smash, and also know why it’s not a good idea.

You might also try a change of perspective. I’m getting lost in the discussion of who might have been right or wrong (maybe both were wrong) in the traffic example of the OP. But you try, if somebody steals your parking spot, instead of getting angry and yelling at him, to decide that you give him the spot as a gift. So instead of 10 minutes of screaming at each other, or of silently being angry at yourself for letting others take advantage of you - you make a gift, turn around for a new search, and feel good for being generous.

Now, this obviously shouldn’t be done in every occasion. It depends on the circumstances. But I feel it helps to change the perspective - how much is thing worth? Is it worth my time and my health to get angry over? Is it important right now to be right and get my right, or do I want to let somebody pass who may be in a hurry?
I’m not advocating to let people walk all over you. But insisting on getting your right all the time simply won’t suceed, either.

[Lust4Life]

@SmellMyWort

I’m not really sure what’s so difficult to understand or why you think driving ability has anything to do with this situation? I might be wrong, but this is the type of parking scenario I read the OP to experience:

\   \   \   \   \   \   \   \   \   \  
            <--normal traffic flow
 /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /
   op-->           <--dick
 \   \   \   \   \ **X** \   \   \   \   \
      <--normal traffic flow
 /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /

The other driver wanting to reverse into the spot is irrelevant and the OP already stated that the other driver was coming down the wrong way, so we know it wasn’t a case where she was a little ways past the soon to be open spot and wanted to back up.

Who is really the parking spot thief/arsehole here? The other driver intentionally (we assume) drove down the WRONG WAY to grab a spot that the OP’s friend was likely to use. I believe the OP’s friend escalated the situation by taking the spot knowing the other driver was waiting, but it wasn’t the other driver’s to begin with (in as much as one can “own” or “claim” a parking spot).

How funny…you just described the wrong-way parker exactly.

“Good manners” the the OPs situation would dictate that in a 1-way angled parking situation, you don’t turn down the isle the wrong way just to grab a closer spot. Doing so disrupts the traffic flow when you park and also when you try to leave. And the isles in an angled parking situation are often more narrow since they are designed for one lane of traffic, not two. Going both ways makes it hard for people to get past.

Brown Eyed Girl, I have driven in parking lots as you describe:

 \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \  \
 _  _  _  _  _  _  _  _                   <--dick
 op-->
 \  \  \  \  \  \ **X**\  \  \  \

In that case, I think it’s still a little out of line for the other driver to lay claim to a spot that is intentionally designed to be entered from the opposite direction. Doing so means she’d have to pull in and back out and pull in again to get the car straight or execute almost a full u-turn, holding up the flow of traffic in either case. It is simply a rude thing to do in a busy parking lot.

If the parking lot WAS laid out in the manner that you surmise why would the other driver bother waiting on a space that they had no real chance of getting in?

[zweisamkeit]

@Lust4Life

If the parking lot WAS laid out in the manner that you surmise why would the other driver bother waiting on a space that they had no real chance of getting in?

Because they’re an asshole! Duh.

We have parking lots like he “surmises” and people still do that all the damn time.

[Duckster]

Next time this happens, before the verbal sparring match begins, take out your cell phone and use the cell phone camera to snap a picture of the other person. You be surprised at how fast people will leave because there is now a photographic record.

Or not.

[SmellMyWort]

Why do people drive while yammering on the phone, cut off other drivers, pull out in front of you, pass only to then immediately make a turn, run red lights, drive slow in the fast lane, park taking up more than one spot, refuse to move over for bikers/runners, not pull all the way into the turn lane, tailgate, keep on their high beams, leave 20 feet between them and the car in front when stoppped at a light, think they can effectively merge with 65mph traffic while going 45mph, drive slow but then speed up when you try to pass, ignore 4-way stops, drive drunk, etc., etc, etc?

[Boyo_Jim]

@Xema

…I don’t think I’ve ever seen a case where responding to verbal aggression with more of the same made the situation better.

Allow me a Bill Clinton moment: it depends on what you mean by “better”. Because it has certainly made me feel better, and sometimes that’s the only “better” I care about. Not always, but sometimes.

[Lust4Life]

@SmellMyWort

Why do people drive while yammering on the phone, cut off other drivers, pull out in front of you, pass only to then immediately make a turn, run red lights, drive slow in the fast lane, park taking up more than one spot, refuse to move over for bikers/runners, not pull all the way into the turn lane, tailgate, keep on their high beams, leave 20 feet between them and the car in front when stoppped at a light, think they can effectively merge with 65mph traffic while going 45mph, drive slow but then speed up when you try to pass, ignore 4-way stops, drive drunk, etc., etc, etc?

Yes I think that we’ve grasped the fact that there are dickheads who drive badly,ignorantly and unthinkingly,if nothing else the O.Ps driver has proved that in spite of your spirited defence of his actions, but…

Selfish,ignorant people do things that while being the actions of an arsehole actually benefit themselves in some way.

The O.Ps driver stole someone elses parking spot,that benefited him.

But according to you even though you dont actually know the layout of the parking lot,
(Unless of course you were actually either there or the O.Ps driver, which would go some way to explaining your viewpoint)

Have no idea of the skill,experience and competence of the other driver,
(And judging his competence by your own is not valid)
you still claim that the other driver made claim to the parking space that according to all your explanations,he COULD NOT MAKE USE OF.

So what would be the point ?

Sorry your attempt at an explanation simply makes no sense,it sounds like an attempt to whitewash the completely unacceptable behaviour of the O.P and his driver.

Clutching at straws aint in it!

[Loach]

@SmellMyWort

I’m not really sure what’s so difficult to understand or why you think driving ability has anything to do with this situation? I might be wrong, but this is the type of parking scenario I read the OP to experience:

\   \   \   \   \   \   \   \   \   \  
            <--normal traffic flow
 /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /
   op-->           <--dick
 \   \   \   \   \ **X** \   \   \   \   \
      <--normal traffic flow
 /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /  /

See I was thinking it was more:

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
<–normal traffic flow
I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
op–> <–Dick

with the only thing keeping the other driver from the spot is some arrows on the ground. Which in my state have no legal meaning on private property.
Without getting into the OP I’d have to say it is a really bad idea to get into a screaming match with someone in public. I have tried to warn my wife about this. It might make you feel better to yell but you don’t know what kind of crazy you are yelling at. It is not worth it. Just let it go.

[SmellMyWort]

@Loach

See I was thinking it was more:

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
<–normal traffic flow
I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I
op–> <–Dick

with the only thing keeping the other driver from the spot is some arrows on the ground. Which in my state have no legal meaning on private property.
Without getting into the OP I’d have to say it is a really bad idea to get into a screaming match with someone in public. I have tried to warn my wife about this. It might make you feel better to yell but you don’t know what kind of crazy you are yelling at. It is not worth it. Just let it go.

I completely agree that if the parking was set up that way that there was no wrong done by the other driver and the OP’s driver was just being a dick. But it is my experience that when the isles are designated 1-way, as the OP specified, it is because the parking is angled.

[SmellMyWort]

@Lust4Life

Yes I think that we’ve grasped the fact that there are dickheads who drive badly,ignorantly and unthinkingly,if nothing else the O.Ps driver has proved that in spite of your spirited defence of his actions, but…

Selfish,ignorant people do things that while being the actions of an arsehole actually benefit themselves in some way.

The O.Ps driver stole someone elses parking spot,that benefited him.

The other driver tried to lay claim to a spot in such a way that it created an inconvenient and possibly dangerous situation for other drivers, with the sole purpose of benefiting herself.

But according to you even though you dont actually know the layout of the parking lot,
(Unless of course you were actually either there or the O.Ps driver, which would go some way to explaining your viewpoint)

Have no idea of the skill,experience and competence of the other driver,
(And judging his competence by your own is not valid)
you still claim that the other driver made claim to the parking space that according to all your explanations,he COULD NOT MAKE USE OF.

Sorry, Inspector Gadget, but I don’t know the OP. I do, however, have pleanty of experience driving in parking lots where on more than one occasion I’ve bearly squeezed by some moron going down the wrong way, because again, the lanes in these types of lots are often not meant to have two cars pass comfortably. And I can see how it would be frustrating for the OP’s driver to be coming down the isle and see someone’s reverse lights come on (yay, a spot), and then see some dumb bag turn down the wrong way and start waiting for the spot. I doubt I would “steal” the spot, but I would not have good thoughts about that driver, and I would laugh has she tries to manuever her car in from the wrong way, because people always look like idiots when they do that.

And again, why is any sort of skill involved? I NEVER said the other driver could not make use of the spot, only that doing so is inconvenient to the other drivers. Do you not see how pulling into an angled spot from the wrong way is going to hold everyone up because she’ll have to pull in and out a few times to get her car in straight?

So what would be the point ?

Sorry your attempt at an explanation simply makes no sense,it sounds like an attempt to whitewash the completely unacceptable behaviour of the O.P and his driver.

Clutching at straws aint in it!

There’s not clutching at straws and my explanation would only not make sense to someone who is completely unaware of driving and how parking lots are set up. Are you, because based on your posts and you inability to grasp a simple parking scenario, I’m guessing your driving experience is limited if not nil. Really, do I need to get out some toy cars and act this out for you?

The only reason I came into this thread was because some were quick to assess complete blame on the OP’s driver and I wanted to point out how the other driver may have been in the wrong too. I’ve already said that I think the OP’s driver at least escalated a situation s/he didn’t have to, and at most is 100% the dick, so I don’t really see how you can accuse me of somehow trying to “whitewash.”

[FallenAngel]

Sorry, if the other driver has to go against the flow of traffic to get to the spot, they do not have a claim to it no matter how long they’ve been waiting.

My retort would have been, “If you’d ever learned to fucking drive you’d probably have been parked by now.”

I’ve never been one to just let blowhards slide, although I don’t seek to actively escalate the confrontation either.

My ex-wife, on the other hand, had absolutely zero tolerance for idiots. One day we were walking through a parking lot. We were walking down the right side of a lane when a car comes zooming up the lane straight toward us, even though there was plenty of room in his own lane.

We both yelled and flipped him off as we ducked between a couple of parked cars to avoid getting clipped.

We walked on and the guy pulled back around in front of us demanding to know why we’d flipped him off. My wife said, “Because you were racing up the wrong lane, nearly ran us over and didn’t pay a bit of fucking attention, you ass-filtching retard.”

He looked looked shocked and said, "Well, if I didn’t swing out, I couldn’t make the turn, " which was all of 10 yards ahead of him.

My wife looked back at the turn, looked at him and said, “Give me your fucking keys. You’re too stupid to operate a car.”

He looked even more confused, sputtered, got in his car and drove off.

Another time we were going to a concert and a bunch of fire and brimstone xians were in front of the venue shoving pamphlets at people and harassing them. One shoved a paper in her hand and yelled, “Rock music is the work of Satan. You’re going to hell!”

She didn’t even break stride as she crumpled the paper, threw it at him and said, “I’ll tell your mom you said hi.”

[SmellMyWort]

@FallenAngel

Sorry, if the other driver has to go against the flow of traffic to get to the spot, they do not have a claim to it no matter how long they’ve been waiting.

My retort would have been, “If you’d ever learned to fucking drive you’d probably have been parked by now.”

I’ve never been one to just let blowhards slide, although I don’t seek to actively escalate the confrontation either.

My ex-wife, on the other hand, had absolutely zero tolerance for idiots. One day we were walking through a parking lot. We were walking down the right side of a lane when a car comes zooming up the lane straight toward us, even though there was plenty of room in his own lane.

We both yelled and flipped him off as we ducked between a couple of parked cars to avoid getting clipped.

We walked on and the guy pulled back around in front of us demanding to know why we’d flipped him off. My wife said, “Because you were racing up the wrong lane, nearly ran us over and didn’t pay a bit of fucking attention, you ass-filtching retard.”

He looked looked shocked and said, "Well, if I didn’t swing out, I couldn’t make the turn, " which was all of 10 yards ahead of him.

My wife looked back at the turn, looked at him and said, “Give me your fucking keys. You’re too stupid to operate a car.”

He looked even more confused, sputtered, got in his car and drove off.

Another time we were going to a concert and a bunch of fire and brimstone xians were in front of the venue shoving pamphlets at people and harassing them. One shoved a paper in her hand and yelled, “Rock music is the work of Satan. You’re going to hell!”

She didn’t even break stride as she crumpled the paper, threw it at him and said, “I’ll tell your mom you said hi.”

Thanks for making my day!!!

[Daylate]

Originally Posted by Daylate
I think it was Mark Twain (but could be wrong) who said, “The definition of a gentleman is one who never looses his temper unintentionaly.”

Good advice.

Well, Twain wouldn’t have used “looses” in that way. I went to look for the quote and (so far) haven’t found it. Perhaps you mean this quote from Oscar Wilde?
Quote:
A true gentleman is one who is never unintentionally rude.
– Oscar Wilde

I SAID I wasn’t sure! However, if you attribute a quote to either Mark Twain or H.L. Mencken you’ve got probably a 90% chance of being right.

[Cheesesteak]

@SmellMyWort

And I can see how it would be frustrating for the OP’s driver to be coming down the isle and see someone’s reverse lights come on (yay, a spot), and then see some dumb bag turn down the wrong way and start waiting for the spot.

The OP very clearly described a situation where the “wrong way” driver was already waiting for the spot and the OP’s car “rushed in and snatched” it.

[Lust4Life]

@SmellMyWort

The other driver tried to lay claim to a spot in such a way that it created an inconvenient and possibly dangerous situation for other drivers, with the sole purpose of benefiting herself.
Sorry, Inspector Gadget, but I don’t know the OP. I do, however, have pleanty of experience driving in parking lots where on more than one occasion I’ve bearly squeezed by some moron going down the wrong way, because again, the lanes in these types of lots are often not meant to have two cars pass comfortably. And I can see how it would be frustrating for the OP’s driver to be coming down the isle and see someone’s reverse lights come on (yay, a spot), and then see some dumb bag turn down the wrong way and start waiting for the spot. I doubt I would “steal” the spot, but I would not have good thoughts about that driver, and I would laugh has she tries to manuever her car in from the wrong way, because people always look like idiots when they do that.

And again, why is any sort of skill involved? I NEVER said the other driver could not make use of the spot, only that doing so is inconvenient to the other drivers. Do you not see how pulling into an angled spot from the wrong way is going to hold everyone up because she’ll have to pull in and out a few times to get her car in straight?

There’s not clutching at straws and my explanation would only not make sense to someone who is completely unaware of driving and how parking lots are set up. Are you, because based on your posts and you inability to grasp a simple parking scenario, I’m guessing your driving experience is limited if not nil. Really, do I need to get out some toy cars and act this out for you?

The only reason I came into this thread was because some were quick to assess complete blame on the OP’s driver and I wanted to point out how the other driver may have been in the wrong too. I’ve already said that I think the OP’s driver at least escalated a situation s/he didn’t have to, and at most is 100% the dick, so I don’t really see how you can accuse me of somehow trying to “whitewash.”

Yes I do drive and I strongly suspect that my driving ability is nowhere near as limited as your own judging by your posts.
If your driving ability matches your spelling ability I’d put in for some lessons if I were you and take a retest.

All of your arguments seem to be based on IF,or might be or what you THINK to be the case.

What goes on inside your head is completely irrelevant to the real world,the world of facts and the world of driving.

I fully believe that you’ve experienced a good many difficulties with other drivers on the road but I suspect that has more to do with yourself and your competence then everyone else on the road.

I dont envy anyone who has to drive anywhere near you.

Some people can drive a bus through a narrow tunnel without any difficulty,others however struggle to get a golf cart through a forty foot gap.

I wonder which one of the two you most resemble?