I don’t mean, neccessarily, on the boards. I’m wondering if it’s legal, under US law, to openly ask what an appropriate amount of a given drug would be sufficient to kill oneself.
I realize every person is different, and each drug is different, but is there a database that has a general guideline?
Researching the overdose info on some doesn’t give a solid baseline. Mostly info on how to/not to make a person vomit, etc.
Anything on what is a lethal dose in the majority of the population? I realize this is probably skirting the acceptable kind of questions here, but in case it gets past the censors, I’d be interested in some facts.
Many MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) list LD50 values - the lethal dose in 50% of subjects. It is usually expressed in mg of substance per kg of body mass. Although a human LD50 value isn’t that common - it’s a bit hard to test, after all - many substances have published oral LD50 values for rats and other laboratory animals.
I used to work in 24 hour pharmacy. One late night caller wanted to know the toxic dosage of a particular medicine. The pharmacist wouldn’t tell him. We took no action other than the passive one of not answering his question.
I think the caller made a series of calls to us, initially wanting to know if the medication could be harmful if taken in large enough quantities, then calling back to ask how much constituted a harmful/fatal dose. This was about 10 years ago; the memory is a little hazy.
Well, it’s certainly legal to ask “How much of substance X would be fatal to a person?” without mentioning suicide, as that can be a very reasonable question. Asking with regards to suicide may be enough to get you put under observation, but I am not a lawyer, you’re mileage may vary, etc.
Crescend is right in that looking at the “LD50” is the best you’ll find for most substances. While it may be legal to ask, they certainly don’t have to tell you.
Tylenol is just acetaminophen and it is a LOUSY way to die. Every now and then I autopsy a teenager who has died of a fatal overdose.
When you first take your huge handful of tylenol, you don’t die. It is a fine dramatic gesture (see: teenagers) and it feels definitive, but you don’t die. You are likely to feel fine for twenty-four hours.
However. Your liver is desperately battling against the tide of tylenol you have absorbed. it is using up a vital nutrient to do it. If during this neutral phase, you were to go to the ER, confess your suicide attempt, and be jacked full of pharmaceutical quantities of glutathione, you might well be saved. But you probably don’t confess because you are full of mixed feelings of shame and guilt (see: teenagers).
A day later you begin to vomit. Now your liver is starting to fail. When you go to the ER, there may be hardly any traces of tylenol left in your blood. But if you are awake to tell them what you did (in remorse because you have decided you would rather live; see: teenagers) they will do what they can to save you. Unfortunately if you go on to the major hepatotoxicity phase, death ensues 4 to 7 days later in a state of coma. You will have been constantly nauseous, intubated, covered with IVs like a porcupine with the needles turned inward, and turning yellow, and there will be nothing we can do. Except transplant, and very few people are lucky enough to get a liver within 4 days of asking one.
Tylenol is one of the ugliest suicides there is and not worth the misery. It is usually committed only by people who are ignorant of the consequences, under-financed, without access to stronger drugs, and dramatic (see: teenagers).
The doctor who treated my grandfather in hospice (cancer. Cancer everywhere - started in the prostate, then in the digestive tract. At the end, it was everywhere) looked my mother and grandmother very carefully and deliberately in the eyes and said, “Here is his morphine. Here is his dose. Be careful not to give him XXX, it would kill him. Painlessly, but it would kill him.” It was a total “nudge, nudge, wink, wink, nowotImean” gesture from a wonderful caring man who had treated my grandfather for 50 years and didn’t want him to suffer any more.
As it turned out, Grandpa left on his own before my mom and Grandma had to make that decision. Thank Og.
I don’t know if what the doctor did was entirely ethical or legal, but it was much appreciated by the family.
Chicago. Assisted suicide is most emphatically NOT legal here. I think that’s why he carefully spoke in terms of what NOT to do. I do suspect that he could potentially lose his license if it became known. His intent was obvious, even if he was covering his ass, legally.
[QUOTE=gabriela]
Tylenol is just acetaminophen and it is a LOUSY way to die. Every now and then I autopsy a teenager who has died of a fatal overdose.
When you first take your huge handful of tylenol, you don’t die. It is a fine dramatic gesture (see: teenagers) and it feels definitive, but you don’t die. You are likely to feel fine for twenty-four hours.
/QUOTE]
Do you ever get people in there who were probably addicted to painkillers and “over did it” with their doses? See, I take Lortab 10/500 for excruciating pain in my lumbar spine due to disc degeneration and I always worry about my intake of tylenol. On bad days I can take up to 8-10 a day in the period of about a 16 hour day. Basically one every 2-3 hours. I constantly worry. I had my liver checked back in April and all my levels were normal except my tryglicerides due to being overweight.
I wonder how many deaths are related to painkillers, not the actualy narcotic in them, but the Tylenol in them?
From what I understand (IANAD) cancer breakthrough pain is extremely difficult to properly control. What makes it harder still is that patients who have been on morphine for a while will tolerate doses that would kill a healthy person. There really isn’t a maximum doseage for opioid painkillers (the regular range for morphine is 25-2500mg per day but can go even higher), but sudden hikes in dosage are dangerous.
True, and fortunately for them (sounds terrible saying that due to them being so sick, nothing is fortunate about that terrible disease) MS Contin (Morphine) doesn’t have any Tylenol in them. If they did, there is no way people would be able to use large doses for pain for fear of getting liver damage or failure.
Just so as you know, “Tylenol” is a brand name for a preparation sold in the US containing the painkilling compound generically called acetaminophen and if you’re outside the US, the painkiller is called paracetamol.
Acetaminophen is actually an excellent painkiller in its own right, its pretty much the only painkiller most people will need with any regularity.
No, last I checked, she was merely a morbidly obese bisexual Goth librarian married to a nice guy she met online from New England.
I wonder if her weight or odd dietary habits might have cancelled out the effects of her LD95 dose of aspirin…
