My sister wants to buy an old upright piano, and I told her that she should be able to find a decent one for under $200. A friend of hers told her not to but one because many of these types of pianos are not able to be tuned, or won’t ever stay tuned. I had never heard this before, but wanted to make sure before my sister made her purhchase.
If some pianos are in this category, what causes them to become this way? Also, how would a piano novice be able to tell when buying the piano?
Thanks.
Any stringed instrument will eventually need to be tuned. AFAIK uprights are able to be tuned by removing the rear cover to see the tuning pegs. IANAPiano Tuner so i don’t know the specifics about tuning or differences in brands of pianos.
Tell sis to bring someone, or two who does know how to play piano. He or she can tell if the instrument is worth buying, and whether a good tuning will bring it up to serviceable standards. The worst enemies of a piano are temperature fluctuations, extreme changes in humidity and frequent moving of the instument itself. Old pianos, though often well made, cannot hold a tuning, if, over the life of the instrument, it has been tuned many, many times. All of the piano’s components receive a certain amount of stress with each tuning, and after decades they will not hold a perfect tune due to wear and tear. The pins will turn in their sockets, minute cracking of wooden componets will occur,felt pads can disintegrate, [but are easily replaced.] It’ll never sound like a Bosendorfer, but you just may get much more than your investment. Situate it properly once you take possesssion of it, have it tuned reglarly, and play it frequently[to keep it HAPPY]
The most important part of any piano is the frame on which the strings are attached (and stretched). The strings are always under tension and act like springs - the resultant force on the frame is enormous.
Some cheaper upright pianos have wooden frames and this would definitely not hold the tune as well as one with a metal frame. Again, metal frames come in more than one variety, usually a cast iron frame is more stable, because for one thing, cast iron has a low thermal expansion coefficient (i.e it doesn’t change shape easily with temperature variations). On the other hand it cracks more easily than other metal types. Cast steel (or some alloy) seems to be the more modern trend because steel frames can be made lighter than an equivalent-strength cast iron, but then again steel has a higher thermal expansion coefficient than cast iron.
Secondly, the strings themselves have different construction methods and are made of different materials (notably bronze wire wrapped around an inner steel core for the bass notes) Having inferior type strings or old strings will cause the piano to lose its tune quite easily.
Thirdly, the actual piano action (i.e. the mechanism connected to the piano keys that cause the hammer to strike a string, thereby producing a sound) may be worn or broken. While not directly affecting the tuning, it will make the piano sound flat or honky-tonkish, or make a note softer/louder than one would want, or the hammer could be out of line, striking two adjacent strings which would also make the piano sound out of tune. Here it is best to have someone who is au-fait with different manufacturer’s actions look at the piano, as some manufacturers have better (patented!) actions than others.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Dries Venter
A new piano will require more frequent tunings than an older piano, however, a really old piano might require more tunings than a new piano. However, the average person won’t notice a piano being out of tune until it’s badly out of tune.
My advice is to have a professional inspect the piano. It shouldn’t cost much to have a tuner or other professional evaluate the piano before buying it and it may save you a bundle in the long run.
I used to sell pianos and inspect trade-ins. What quiltguy said.
In addition to simple wear and tear, the piano may have obvious damage that causes harmonic rattles or buzzes. Here’s what I’d advise you look for.
First, I agree with bringing someone along who knows how to play the piano. This person would probably be able to feel that it “plays funny” or that something doesn’t feel right about the keys. You might also ask the owners how long it’s been since the thing was looked at by a tuner and/or repairman.
Sound every key to see if there are broken keys, missing hammers (the key plunks down but there’s no tone) or missing dampers (the note rings out but it doesn’t stop. Remember, the upper range of the piano likely doesn’t have dampers by design) or double-strikes (you push one key but two notes ring). These problems are often relatively easy and inexpensive to fix.
To amplify what venterap is saying about the piano’s frame, here is some good piano vocabulary. In an upright, the piano strings are wrapped around pins and held in tension across a bridge made of hardwood that directly contacts the sounding board. You know how a violin has a wooden bridge that conducts sound between the strings and the resonating hollow body of the violin? Same thing. The bridge conducts the sound to the sounding board, amplifying the volume of the strings. The bottom end of each string is affixed to a pin in the frame, which is the big harp-shaped metal construct inside the piano.
If you can see the back of an upright piano, you might wish to examine the sounding board—but in all honesty it’d probably be easier to just play the darn thing and see if it has a good sound. Cracks in a sounding board, even big cracks, don’t appreciably change the overall sound-producing power of the piano. However, major damage to the sounding board (not unheard of) can change the tune of the strings.
When we say the strings put pressure on the bridge, we ain’t kidding: sometimes as much as twenty tons of pressure for a fully, properly tuned piano. This puts a great deal of strain on both the metal frame and the wooden cabinet, so while you’re nosing around the back of the piano, make sure everything is straight and undamaged. The back of the piano is reinforced wooden posts to keep the piano itself from twisting out of shape under the tension of the strings.
The sounding board has to have a nice gentle crown (which you probably can’t actually see) in order to produce volume. It’s similar to the shape of a speaker cone. If the sounding board is bad, you’re talking big bucks to fix it. More here.
Make sure that the sustain pedal, at the very least, does what it’s supposed to do: that is, when you hold down the rightmost foot pedal, all of the notes should continue to ring even after you release the key. When you then release the footpedal, all the notes should then be damped at the same time. Depending on how the piano is put together—and there’s a lot of variation in uprights—you may have a practice pedal, a soft pedal, or a sostenuto pedal (or two of the above).
Open the top lid (assuming it’s an upright, cabinet, studio, or spinet piano) and remove the front faceplate. Usually there’s a swinging arm on the left and right that you move up to disengage from a peg on the face plate; then the face panel lifts up and out.
Check to see that there are no obviously missing strings. The lower notes are 1 string per key; the low-midrange are 2 strings per; the rest should be 3 strings per. Since the low and low-midrange notes are string coils rather than straight strings, look for rust. Sometimes very old and/or rusty string coils will snap when they are tuned.
Look for any obvious cracks or major damage to the frame (the metal part of the piano inside).
As a side note, the hammers are generally made of wool. Over time the hammers dry out and harden and this causes the piano’s tone to become sharper and a bit, well, twangier. This is pretty much a consequence of buying an old piano. My 1913 Estey had the hammers completely replaced before I bought it, so it’s got a nice mellow sound now.
Depending on whether the piano is an instrument or furniture, do this first or last, and check the cabinet for marks. Be sure to fold out the keyboard cover (most pianos have one that retracts or folds and hides) and check the top of that too. Lots of pianos I have seen, especially old ones, have distinctive marks where a player left a burning cigarette on the edge of the piano. Drink rings are also favorite. Also, if you like your piano to show its teeth, make sure the ivories are all attached. Many old pianos have missing ivories, though this doesn’t affect performance.
When you move the upright in, give it a few days to settle into the room’s temperature and humidity before you try to tune it.
FISH
I know nothing about pianos, but I just have to complement Fish on a fabulously informative post. Makes me want to go out and buy a piano 
I’ll add my kudos to Fish for his excellent post. However, he neglected to touch on one point that goes directly to a question asked in the OP: holding a tuning.
It’s possible for the pinblock (in which the tuning pins are set) to crack, in which case, no matter how good the instrument sounds, it will never hold its tuning. Repairs are sometimes attempted to cracked pinblocks, but they rarely, if ever, work well.
Taking a professional piano technician to see the instrument is the best way to be sure you’re getting your money’s worth.
BTW venterap is mistaken about one point. Frames are never wooden. Always metal.
Finally, I disagree with the OP’s contention that it’s possible to get a “decent” piano for under $200. But then, maybe our definitions of “decent” differ greatly.
Never is a very long time indeed, commasense. I agree that most modern pianos have a metal frame and the one that OP is looking at in all probability has a metal frame, but the OP did not say how old this piano is or what its name is etc; you and I also do not know how it is made or where it came from. A quick search on Google provided this :
Just a a by-the-by, my sister-in-law has her diploma (?) in music (piano) and she has come accross a wooden-framed instrument a few times.