Is it inappropriate to encourage a person who has never used a handgun to learn how?

Great Debates
81

I find it more worrying that an adult remains willfully ignorant of the proper operation and safety practices of any tool or appliance under their own roof that is in the least bit dangerous.

Theres a gun in the house. Every adult in residence needs to know what to do if they find it sitting out in the open somewhere, just as every adult needs to know basics like furnace operation or how to work the fuse box or where the fire extinguishers are.

So yeah… Either the gun has to go, or the spouse has to learn, at the very least, how to determine if its loaded and how to safely unload it.

82

[QUOTE=silenus]
Sure he can. The Brits have condescension towards the colonials down to an art form.
[/QUOTE]
Being one myself, I suppose that makes my objection almost dadaistic.

83

[QUOTE=mlees]

But the reality is, through your marriage and joint home ownership, the rest of us consider you to be a “gun owner”, even if not the registered gun user.

[/QUOTE]

Big brush there - I don’t. Maybe it comes from many years living in digs with gun owners, but I think of guns as personal property, like toothbrushes and vibrators, not communal property like fridges and (living room) TVs. **Kal **is perfectly justified not to call herself a gun owner, IMO.

84

If you have guns in the house you had better practice with them on a regular basis! If you ever need to use them, you want your skills to be sharp. And despite what some say, you do have to aim a shotgun. :slight_smile: At short range, inside a home, the shot is not going to spread out the way it would when you’re shooting at birds.

Having guns in the house for home defense, but not practicing with them regularly, is like knowing karate, but being a tub-of-lard.

85

[QUOTE=CutterJohn]
I find it more worrying that an adult remains willfully ignorant of the proper operation and safety practices of any tool or appliance under their own roof that is in the least bit dangerous.

Theres a gun in the house. Every adult in residence needs to know what to do if they find it sitting out in the open somewhere, just as every adult needs to know basics like furnace operation or how to work the fuse box or where the fire extinguishers are.

So yeah.. Either the gun has to go, or the spouse has to learn, at the very least, how to determine if its loaded and how to safely unload it.
[/QUOTE]

Why not make it mandatory for all US citizens to learn how to use guns? And band saws, for that matter! I mean, what if we stumble upon a gun on the street. It’s OUR DUTY to get intimately involved with the weapon, right?

Our guns haven’t been touched in well over a decade. No need for me to know anything about them except that they’re locked up. If some idiot leaves a gun laying around, I can do a few things: 1) tell the idiot to put the gun away, 2) pick it up and put it in the garage or car and lock the door, 3) call the police and tell them I have a runaway gun in my house with no owner, and let them check it for me.

Again…NO NEED FOR ME TO RE-LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT GUNS. Of course, if the “gun laying around” scenario was a frequent one, I’d probably be a gun person and would be going through the rudiments regularly.

86

[QUOTE=Mosier]
There’s nothing unreasonable about being afraid of guns, but if you’re going to insist on owning one you should also insist that she learn how to be safe with it.

It’s inappropriate to insist that she learn to be a competent shot, or to insist that she own a gun of her own. I guess it’s possible that after learning the basic rules of handgun safety she would be comfortable enough that suggesting she practice with or own a gun wouldn’t be inappropriate, but even then it would still obviously have to be her decision.
[/QUOTE]

This is absolutely correct. I would never force anybody to go to the range with me, tension, fear and discomfort on the range makes for a dangerous combination, but I would insist that she understand how they work so that in the worst case she can make it safe without injuring herself. If she knows nothing more than that she’s still in a better position than most.

87

[QUOTE=CutterJohn]
Theres a gun in the house. Every adult in residence needs to know what to do if they find it sitting out in the open somewhere, just as every adult needs to know basics like furnace operation or how to work the fuse box or where the fire extinguishers are.
[/QUOTE]

This is silly. A gun is not the equivalent of a furnace, and if I found one lying out in the open in my house, I’d solve the problem by getting rid of its stupid, careless owner.

Why this attitude that it’s someone else’s responsibility to learn how to handle a gun, rather than the gun owner’s responsibility to keep track of their weapon?

88

[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=]
There is a reason it’s considered impolite to point a firearm at someone, even if you have just demonstrated that it is not loaded. Simply, the risk of being wrong about whether a gun is loaded is high enough that some fear of guns by people who don’t know how to handle them is completely justified.
[/QUOTE]

That’s an understatement. I know that my gun is unloaded because I just did it and checked about 10 times, but I never look down the barrel until it is removed from the weapon or, in the case of the revolver, the cylinder is open.

The shots that you see of guns looking down the barrel geek me out. They are blatant violations of gun safety. Movies? Better them than me. I could never willingly let someone point a gun at me under any circumstances. Hell, when a bunch of us are in a room I sit in the back so I don’t get covered by the muzzle, and I know there is no ammunition in the room, it’s that creepy to me.

So, impolite? Outright dangerous is more like it.

89

[QUOTE=DianaG]
Why this attitude that it’s someone else’s responsibility to learn how to handle a gun, rather than the gun owner’s responsibility to keep track of their weapon?
[/QUOTE]

Because the consequences to the owner can come later, the immediate issue is what to do right now. I suppose you could call the cops if you find one in a random public place, but are you going to call them to your own home because you’re afraid of guns and your husband/wife owns one? The police won’t be amused at either of you.

90

[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
Because the consequences to the owner can come later, the immediate issue is what to do right now. I suppose you could call the cops if you find one in a random public place, but are you going to call them to your own home because you’re afraid of guns and your husband/wife owns one? The police won’t be amused at either of you.
[/QUOTE]

Is it even legal for a non-licensed person to be handling the gun if there isn’t an imminent threat? I mean, if it’s sitting on the table vs. in a small child’s hand, am I allowed to be messing with the mechanical aspects of it? Serious question. Is it just the discharge you have to be licensed for or is it actual “possession”, if only for a few moments?

Example: a friend leaves their gun in my car. I get pulled over. Can I be charged with illegal possession? What about if someone hands it to me?

91

[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
Because the consequences to the owner can come later, the immediate issue is what to do right now. I suppose you could call the cops if you find one in a random public place, but are you going to call them to your own home because you’re afraid of guns and your husband/wife owns one? The police won’t be amused at either of you.
[/QUOTE]

If there’s no immediate danger, why would I have to do anything? If it’s sitting on the table and there are no children around, why not leave it there until the idiot comes home?

And I think the cops would be glad that an untrained person left the dirty work to them.

92

[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF]
Because the consequences to the owner can come later, the immediate issue is what to do right now. I suppose you could call the cops if you find one in a random public place, but are you going to call them to your own home because you’re afraid of guns and your husband/wife owns one? The police won’t be amused at either of you.
[/QUOTE]

Way to duck the question.

They’ll be *less * amused should someone be accidentally shot. Now is that my fault for not knowing how to handle a gun, or is it the fault of the moron who left it out?

Is it so unreasonable to expect gun owners to take responsibility for their guns?

93

Put me down as a gun owner who is married, with small kids, who supports Kalhoun 100% in this matter. My wife has no problem with me owning guns, but has no interest in them whatsoever. They’re solely my responsibility. I don’t consider her a “gun owner” because she lives in the same house. She knows that if she ever finds a gun lying out where it shouldn’t be, she should (a) get a hold of me, (b) avoid it and keep the kids away from it until I return to deal with it, © read me the riot act for doing something so remarkably stupid. I find that a far better plan than trying to teach her how to clear each of the different types of guns I own.

And to add - if I ever had such a lapse in judgement as to leave a gun where the kids could get it, I’d sell them all (the guns) the next day. If I’m pulling manuevers like that, I would no longer trust myself to own a gun. All my guns are either under my direct control, or locked up out of reach of unauthorized persons, at all times.

94

[QUOTE=MrDibble]
Big brush there - I don’t. Maybe it comes from many years living in digs with gun owners, but I think of guns as personal property, like toothbrushes and vibrators, not communal property like fridges and (living room) TVs. **Kal **is perfectly justified not to call herself a gun owner, IMO.
[/QUOTE]

Not quite as simple as that…

If she “rented” her own bedroom, then things in her roommates (husbands) bedroom might be considered his sole private property and responsibility. But I assume she sleeps in the same bedroom, and that she has access to the closet/safe as freely as he does, so the closet is a jointly shared area.

If the police found an unregistered gun in the bedroom (and assuming she lived in an area that requires gun registration), who gets charged? (I might be wrong, but I assumed it would be everyone who has common access to that room.)

The thing that struck me was the “washing of the hands” this implies, in her case. (As well as how she insists that she doesn’t “allow” the guns there, they were there when she got there.)

Her position is that “I don’t like them, I don’t want anything to do with them, it’s all on my husband.” So much so, that by extension, she feels that she has no responsibility to learn how to render an unsafe situation safe, where their guns are involved. Out of sight, out of mind, and we can pretend they don’t exist.

However, (heh), if it is true that the guns have not been exposed to any kind of light for at least ten years, I guess the situation is kinda moot… which is why I wouldn’t nag her any further. (I had assumed her husband took them out once or twice a year, based on the ‘friends’ comment.) The situation, while not ideal, does not sound like much of a powder keg anymore.

95

[QUOTE=mlees]
Not quite as simple as that…

If she “rented” her own bedroom, then things in her roommates (husbands) bedroom might be considered his sole private property and responsibility. But I assume she sleeps in the same bedroom, and that she has access to the closet/safe as freely as he does, so the closet is a jointly shared area.
[/QUOTE]

Assuming the guns are in a safe, as Kalhoun seemed to be saying, it is entirely possible that it is his safe. But that doesn’t matter - the guns are* his*, not theirs - the same way I share a bathroom with my wife, but her toothbrush and leg razor in it are her property, and I wouldn’t use them without her say-so, even should I run out of blades for mine/lose my own toothbrush.

96

[QUOTE=mlees]
Not quite as simple as that…

If she “rented” her own bedroom, then things in her roommates (husbands) bedroom might be considered his sole private property and responsibility. But I assume she sleeps in the same bedroom, and that she has access to the closet/safe as freely as he does, so the closet is a jointly shared area.

If the police found an unregistered gun in the bedroom (and assuming she lived in an area that requires gun registration), who gets charged? (I might be wrong, but I assumed it would be everyone who has common access to that room.)

The thing that struck me was the “washing of the hands” this implies, in her case. (As well as how she insists that she doesn’t “allow” the guns there, they were there when she got there.)

Her position is that “I don’t like them, I don’t want anything to do with them, it’s all on my husband.” So much so, that by extension, she feels that she has no responsibility to learn how to render an unsafe situation safe, where their guns are involved. Out of sight, out of mind, and we can pretend they don’t exist.

However, (heh), if it is true that the guns have not been exposed to any kind of light for at least ten years, I guess the situation is kinda moot… which is why I wouldn’t nag her any further. (I had assumed her husband took them out once or twice a year, based on the ‘friends’ comment.) The situation, while not ideal, does not sound like much of a powder keg anymore.
[/QUOTE]

The guns have gone untouched for so long that I’d bet money he cannot come up with the combination in under an hour, if he comes up with it at all.

Regarding my responsibility for the guns. I do have a responsibility to ensure irresponsible gun owners don’t live in my house. Someone would have to go if the guns didn’t go. I can’t force him to give up the guns and I can’t force him to leave the house. If I don’t like it, it’s up to me to remove myself from the situation.

I have no responsibility, moral or otherwise, to learn how to use the guns. It is 100% not my thing. It doesn’t matter whether I’m taking a moral stand, a practical stand or a lazy stand. I am unlicensed and untrained in gun usage and will remain so. There is absolutely no reason for me to waste my time on it.

97

[QUOTE=MrDibble]
Assuming the guns are in a safe, as Kalhoun seemed to be saying, it is entirely possible that it is his safe. But that doesn’t matter - the guns are* his*, not theirs - the same way I share a bathroom with my wife, but her toothbrush and leg razor in it are her property, and I wouldn’t use them without her say-so, even should I run out of blades for mine/lose my own toothbrush.
[/QUOTE]

It’s illegal for me to own his guns. I’m not licensed. If they were truly considered joint property, the law would require both spouses to be licensed. I can legally own them for a month, I believe, upon his death, while I either get licensed or sell them. That is the only way they could be considered mine.

98

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
It’s illegal for me to own his guns.
[/QUOTE]

I always thought you were probably a felon!

99

[QUOTE=vetbridge]
I always thought you were probably a felon!
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…and I’m jellin’ like a felon.

100

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
…and I’m jellin’ like a felon.
[/QUOTE]

Well, u b 2 cool. Me, I’m just insertwittyrhymephrase like a misdemeanor. :cool: