No you didn’t have $50 in your account. You knew that you spent $30, so you should have known you only had $20. It sounds like you are in the habit of floating checks. With the new banking rules in effect, you are going to get caught more and more. I suggest you stop relying on what’s cleared the bank and relying on what you know that you have spent.
I have written checks to my hairstylist that take up to a month to clear. It doesn’t matter, that money is gone from my account the second I wrote the check.
No, you can’t. If you write a check that hasn’t cleared yet or that someone (be it a company who takes a while to get things to the bank or a friend who got a check for his birthday from you) hasn’t deposited yet, or a credit card transaction run online that wasn’t then run on the spot with the CC company (which definitely happens), then you won’t get a truly accurate picture of your balance. You’re right that it’s not 1852, and you can go online to look at your account. While you were online, you should have clicked the handy-dandy Account Transactions option, and perhaps seeing the $1 charge from the gas station would have rung a bell that all was not well with your situation.
In defense of that particular comment, quite often, particularly with gas station purchases, I’ve had the $1 pending charge drop completely off for days and then had the actual charge come through later. But, if you’re keeping track of your expenditures yourself, it doesn’t matter. You will know that charge is still out there waiting to be processed.
I’ve done the same thing myself several times. I lose track of some debit card purchase and it screws everything and I get very angry. But, I get angry at myself, because I know if I was keeping track it wouldn’t have happened. You should never trust your bank completely to keep track of all your money, anyway. If you don’t know what’s supposed to be in your account, you won’t know if the bank makes a mistake.
I’ve had the multiple hold for a screwed up online purchase thing happen to me, also. In that case, a call to the bank got everything straightened out.
Now… if you want to talk about ways the bank does intentionally do things in a way that rips off customers… well, this may not be the appropriate forum.
Half right. Charcoal and leather are not required. Pen and paper, though, could be very helpful.
WRONG. You can know what the recorded balance is at that time. That’s not even necessarily the same as how much would show if you were dealing with a teller at that moment. It certainly isn’t necessarily the same as what you actually have available with all transactions accounted for. Read your agreement with the bank. It’s all explained there.
WRONG. The onus is on you. Read your agreement with the bank. It’s all explained there.
The gas station is no more responsible than the bank for your failure to keep track of your finances.
Sorry, but while these wonderful modern electronic systems offer a lot of convenience, they do not purport to do what you seem to want them to. Your expectations do not mesh with the reality of the situation.
I think what ivylass is saying is that most bank debit cards (credit cards are another beast) are linked to a bank account. Usually this is a checking account. It could just as easily be a savings account, but for most people, it’s a checking account. Checking accounts come with a “check register,” which is a little booklet you can use to record your “debits,” or checks/withdrawals.
A credit card is, as I said, a different beast, and I don’t think that your OP refers to a credit card. With a credit card, there generally is no linked bank account, and you can “charge” things on the card based on your “credit line.” Those charges are totalled up, and once a month you’re sent a bill for all those charges. In essence, the card loans you the money because it pays the merchants for you, and then you pay the card back. Based on the OP, that doesn’t sound like what you have. You likely have a debit card with a Visa or Mastercard logo, which means you can use the card as if it were a credit card, but it deducts directly from the linked account. It remains a debit card, even when used like a credit card.
I’m frankly fascinated by the notion that it’s the bank’s responsibility to keep an up-to-the minute account of my spending. I don’t recall seeing that as one of the things promised when I opened an account (to the contrary, I was warned that it could take days or longer for withdrawals or checks to show up on my online statement). Do you mind me asking what bank you use and what type of account you have that they’d make such a commitment? It seems a bit risky on their part, as they might be opening themselves up to some kind of legal battle in the event that they’re a bit late in posting debits or credits.
To put it another way: you entered into an agreement to pay someone for services/goods rendered. They took a little longer than you would have liked to complete the transaction (i.e. charge your card) and in the interim, you forgot that you owed them the money. Thinking that your balance reflected the post-gas station charge, you spent more money than would have been in your account if the gas station had charged you before your purchase.
Like everyone said, you, not the bank, needs to keep track of how much is left. Treat your debit card like a check. Mark down when you used it, and subtract out the amount. That way you will never be suprized.
As an extreme example. Being in Korea with my bank in Nevada it has taken over a month for some of my debit card purchases to hit my checking account. I just note how much I spent, and when I check my account online I subtract out what is not listed, and I know how much I have.
I think the problem arises when people use a debit card without keying in their PIN–essentially using a debit card as a credit card. In such a case, it is legal for the vendor to place some arbitrary amount on “hold.” My prefered gas station has a notice posted at every pump explaining this. At that station, the standard “hold” is $50.00 but might be as much as $75.00—I don’t know if $75.00 is a legal max or what. When the PIN is used, the arbitrary “hold” rule is not applicable. Plus, my bank (BoA) shows pending transactions as being deducted from my account balance even if the transaction hasn’t been posted.
A debit card is, by name, meant to represent an instantaneous-access value. That is, if it has 50 credits on it, and you swipe it for something that costs 20, then you have 30 credits left, right-then, right-there. It is the whole purpose of switching from credit to debit–that people don’t want to have to wait several weeks for transactions to be summed and extracted from your account or do the math yourself. It’s the computer age, with 128-bit encryption running over fiberoptic lines directly to your bank’s superserver cum uber-database. There is no reason in the modern world for debit cards to not do exactly what they are intended to, except for banks deciding to only half-assedly moving off of the old credit card infrastructure.
Certainly it may be the current state of the banking industry that you still need to keep tally beyond what log-data they keep, but for people who grew up with computers, trying to think in those terms is like anyone on this board trying to figure out why you would ever have to study intelligent design in a modern-day highschool and swear off Darwin as having any plausibility. A lot of ours brains just aren’t wired that way anymore.
I would suggest that the OP come and live in Australia or New Zealand. Our bank cards work exactly how you seem to be expecting them to. If I go to the shop and buy $12 worth of stuff, then that $12 is immediately deducted from my account. If I then go online I’ll see the correct up to date balance. It can sometimes take a day or two for the transaction details to appear online but the balance itself is live and accurate.
I’m struggling to understand why they would think this; the gas stations are deliberately doing something that does not profit them, in order to make your bank charge you… nopedon’tgeddit.
If it was being argued that they are overcharging, then crediting back the difference to help with their cashflow, or even to gain a few extra pennies in interest, I could believe that, but what would be the motivation for a fuel vendor to deliberately try to invoke their customers’ overdraft fees? Sounds like a recipe for reduced custom to me.
Because what the OP is using is not just a “debit card.” He is using a debit card tied into one of the two main credit card networks, Visa or MasterCard. The card doesn’t allow him/her to spend more than is in the linked account, but it handles the processing of the transaction through the credit card company’s network. This way, the card becomes acceptable at all places where a Visa/MasterCard would be accepted.
When you use a debit card as a debit card, you will find that the bank will automatically deduct the balance from your account, with most banks, or will deduct it from the “available balance,” which is your actual balance on the books, minus any debits of which the bank knows, but which have not yet officially been posted. But when you use the “debit card” as a “credit card,” the network queries the bank to see what the balance is, but doesn’t submit the transaction until whenever the business clears its credit card transactions. This often results in a delay, especially if a weekend intervenes. Depending upon the bank and the vendor, the bank likely will not show a pending purchase as being subtracted from the available balance.
The situation is no different than when you write a check. It’s the responsibility of the account owner to know what actual funds he/she has, and to keep track of what has been spent while the check or transaction goes through the clearing process. If you wish to be more certain, use the debit card as a debit card only. However, this will limit the number of places at which you can use the card, and often will cost you a transaction fee, depending upon the business and your bank.
I also find it quite unusual that the gas station actually put through a $1 charge at the time of the transaction. Much more common is for the business, or the bank, to put a “hold” on the account, as others have described. Our local Sunoco’s have recently put up signs informing customers that any “hold” is the result of the practices of the particular bank; the gas stations themselves don’t put holds on the account except during the brief period between the initial inquiry of your account and the end of the transaction.
Which is why he should move over here, as I said, things work exactly as he expects them to.
I have a Visa card which is also a debit card. When I put a purchase on to my savings or cheque account, the fund transfer occurs immediately, if I use the credit account, the funds move at whatever time is convenient for the banks.
I have yet to see somewhere that will accept Visa or Master Card but does not do normal EFTPOS transactions.
Possibly because of the size of the USA you haven’t been able to put together the kind of bank agreements that would be required to streamline the process.
In this country, the direct EFT-type transaction is usually found at grocery stores, some gas stations, only one fast-food chain that I know of, and precious few other places. Restaurants, for example, almost exclusively use the credit card method, and don’t offer the debit card method, with its quite annoying PIN entry.
Part of it has to do with the fact that the whole fund-transfer business shot itself in the foot by having about three or four competing networks at the start. The move to using the “Check Card” came about because the result was an ability to use your card everywhere. Visa started the concept, IIRC; they promoted it heavily.
Is it really true that ALL vendors in your country allow debit transactions requiring PIN’s? Small businesses, like shops? Restaurants? Is no fee charged for it?
It’s legal, customary and quite normal.
SusanStoHelit’s answer is basically accurate.
If you can use a credit card to patronize those places that place holds on your account, use one.
If you can’t use a credit card for this, you’re best off paying cash for these transactions. It will require carrying more cash than most people carry, but it beats overdraft fees.
The only other sane option would be to have a second checking account with a second debit card and an excessive balance… something over $1000. If you pay any attention at all, you won’t overdraft that kind of account.
Sage Rat, I’m 23. I’ve had a home computer since I was 6. I don’t think that it absolves me of the responsibility to research my bank’s practices.
1920s Style “Death Ray”, how long does it take for deposits to become available through your debit card? Here, the networks are updated once every 24 hours during the week, and not at all during the weekends. Thus I can run into two problems: I deposit money on friday afternoon, try to use that money over the weekend, and can’t, or I can spend the same money twice because I checked my balance at an ATM and it didn’t reflect my first transaction.
If I deposit money at a bank then it is immediate. If I transfer money electronically from, say, my wife’s account into mine then it all happens straight away. I don’t know about depositing money via an ATM, I’ve never done it, and don’t know if we are set up for it here.
I have seen signs on some 3rd party ATMs saying that transactions aren’t processed till the next business day, but they are non-bank ATMs and are fairly rare.
Which didn’t answer my questions. And are you quite certain that all money deposited or transferred is immediately available? If so, how do your banks avoid check kiting schemes?
All major stores have it, all restaurants, grocery stores, gas stations, bars, night-clubs, retail outlets, department stores etc. I would only make sure to have cash if I’m going to get some food from a small family owned bakery or something. There are always exceptions, so I tend to make sure I carry some cash with me anyway. If they have a machine to process a credit card electronically then they will also process a debit card.
The fees depend on your bank. Some banks have a flat fee for however many transactions you like, some charge for each one. I seem to pay about $5/month in bank fees which includes any internet banking I do as well. the fees are deducted in one lump at the end of each month rather than as part of the original transaction.
I don’t understand what’s annoying about PIN entry, it is just as quick as signing a credit slip, and quicker than rummaging around for money in my wallet.
It is normal for shops to have a minimum amount for electronic transactions, both credit and debit. Normally it is around $10. They do this to help absorb any fees that they incur themselves.