You should really read HIPAA sometime. There’s all sorts of things your employers are legally allowed to know, especially if you work in the medical industry.
BigT,
HIPPA is the requirement that I, as a healthcare worker, may not release your information except under very particular circumstances, generally including with your consent. It has nothing to do with your giving your medical information to your employer as a condition of employment, be it immunization status or urine for drug testing.
You are free to make decisions that I think are medically foolish. I, as a medical employer, should also be free to protect my patients from the consequences of your stupid decisions by preventing your potentially exposing them to diseases that may harm them more than you by not having you in my employ.
Yeah, I can’t even edit I’m so upset by insinuating that I’m lying. Normally I wouldn’t say anything about it, but I know is going to use that as proof I have cogntive deficits.
“…that being an atheist doesn’t result in persecution in this country.”
And I shouldn’t have to say this, but I probably do: I don’t support persecution of atheists. I just don’t like it when people advocate that people of certain religions people shouldn’t be allowed in healthcare.
And I know that my circumstances are unusual. I’m not saying getting a shot is a bad idea for everyone. I am saying that the low incidence of death from flu makes it acceptable to consider how much harm the shot does for you. You feel a little sick for a day? Yeah, that’s not enough. You have past history of seizures from immunization–yeah, you should get a choice.
Anyone who ever tries to force me to get immunized will have another thing coming. If you are willing to cause harm to me, then I am willing to cause harm to you. This is not an issue about which I am willing to debate.
If hospitals really cared about all this, everyone would be required to wear a mask, as the flu is far from the only communicable disease. Just going to the doctor is a risk for everyone due to putting all the sick people in a room together to wait.
It would irritate me a lot less if they’d stop calling it a “religious” exemption. Call it an allergy exemption, a conscientious objector exemption, or a paranoid exemption. Or just have them fill out a plain “I don’t want it and you can’t make me” form. Baby Jesus hasn’t got a thing to say about the flu shot, and I wish they would drop that term.
As far as I’m concerned, if I’m hospitalized, damn right I want to feel safe knowing that my nurses and doctors have been vaccinated against hepatitis and rubella and influenza. At the hospital I worked at, those with patient contact had to wear masks at all times if they declined the flu shot, but it was almost impossible to enforce, and I know that most of the people who declined the shot also ignored the mask rule. How is that in the best interest of your patients? That really pissed me off. Put yourself at risk for flu, you’re an adult and I’m completely okay with your decision. But then you can’t be in contact with people you could make sick.
Do you feel I have an obligation to hire you or maintain your employment if you fail to follow what are considered basic precautions for the safety of my at-risk patients?
And therefore working in the health care industry would not be a good fit for you.
I’ve been thinking about this subject on and off for a couple hours now, and I keep coming back to the general idea that industry-specific health requirements, especially as they relate to the safety of others, are probably a pretty good thing. Want to be a cop? Be prepared to submit to a psychological exam now and then. Want to be an airline pilot? Be prepared to have an EKG. Want to work around sick people? Be prepared to have a wide range of vaccinations.
They don’t require health care workers to get flu shots for the health of the employee, they require it for the health of the patients. It is a patient safety issue, and every hospital I have worked for when I have had direct patient contact required flu shots, Hep B vaccinations, and TB tests. These were provided free t employees so the hospitals could keep up with protocol and pass inspections. If you did not get them you violated health law and were justly fired. The hospital is not going to risk losing funding and certification for a few hundred non-compliant employees. They can hire plenty of new people willing to follow the rules
Having “good nutrition” usually means you follow any one of a number of medical fads such as taking more vitamins than your body can actually use.
Nice assumption about my religious status. It’s wrong, too.
The clarification about the ice bath helps, at that age (last I read on the subject) it can be of assistance in certain situations, but that’s not my field. People so heavily misuse the phrase “clinically dead” that I look askance at it frequently.
The thing with the religious exception is that the vast majority of religions do not forbid or discourage vaccination, and I believe most people claiming it are using it as an “easy out”. I suspect there are a few fringe groups that actively preach against it, but they don’t seem to account for the comparatively large opt-out percentages. If questioned, I don’t think most could even come up with a justification that didn’t also apply to a treatment that they’d eagerly accept.
My employer, and every other healthcare institution in the US, also requires their employees who have patient contact to be tested yearly for tuberculosis. This involves having a bolus of TB bacteria proteins injected under your skin, or a blood test. If you test positive (either false positive or due to previous exposure) then you have to have a chest x-ray. And you get retested every year, including another chest x-ray if you were positive. There are other medical requirements we have to follow as well.
And BigT, you obviously aren’t a good candidate to be a healthcare worker. But you should probably be wary of a healthcare worker who tries to weasel out of a flu shot. (FWIW, they make a nasal “squirt” version in addition to the actual injection, too.)
To make it completely clear. As a medical employer my employee’s health is not my ethical concern but my patient’s health is. If you want to put yourself at risk, go at it. If you want to put my patients’ health at risk do not work for me.
I’ve tried ignoring this, but I keep coming back to it because it really baffles me.
I’m reading a really incredible amount of hostility in this post and I do not understand why. When you write “Anyone who ever tries to force me…” it sounds like you are just walking down the street and someone grabs you and straps you to a table and tries to vaccinate you against their will.
We are talking about people who have volunteered for a job where they know routine immunizations are a pretty big deal. This isn’t just something that came out of the blue. Their employer set the standard, and whether or not they met the standard is a choice they made freely.
There are lots of things my employer requires of me. Some have good reasons. Some are profoundly stupid. But whether I submit or not remains my choice, because I voluntarily chose my profession and I choose whether or not I remain.
What occupation do you have where you do not have to meet your employer’s standards?
Oftentimes, those people are so sick or weak they aren’t allowed to get the flu vaccine because their immune systems can’t handle it. Same with very young babies. They are protected only by the herd immunity of having the population at large immunized.
My wife is an elementary school teacher. She is required on a scheduled basis to get a TB test and a Hepatitis vaccine (I think that’s the one). It’s just part of her job requirements.
I don’t understand the logic of waiting until you’ve gotten the flu to get a flu shot. Is it because you think that you’re really healthy and that’s why you haven’t gotten the flu, so getting the flu would be an indication that you’re no longer healthy enough to rely on your immune system alone? If so, I think you’re making the mistake of valuing personal experience (which has high variance), over medical data. People get the flu. No one’s gotten the flu until they get it, and the flu shot helps protect everybody. I’ve never been thrown through a windshield, but I still wear a seatbelt.
To the OP, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to require a flu shot (as long as there’s a reasonable process for medical deferral) for a job. I have no idea if it’s actually legal.
Aren’t there some religions that would not accept a flu shot like Christian Scientists of Jahovah Witnesses? If so it seems like a freedom of religion issue.
Most employers will allow a documented religious exemption but then with protective equipment (mask, gloves) or changing to a non-patient contact position during the season.
They might face more issues when working in healthcare, notably measles/mumps/rubella well before influenza. Not to mention what their opinions might be on TB testing, which is required as well.
We’re not talking about government employees, so it’s not a freedom of religion issue.