I live in a factory / warehouse unit on an industrial estate and am wondering if it’s actually legal. The law in question is that of New South Wales, Australia. The downstairs is used as office space for a business and the business owners have allowed me to live in a large room upstairs that was also originally used as an office.
Neighouring units are used for a variety of light industrial and office business.
I’ve searched on Google but all I get is real estate ads.
The type of premises I am talking about can be seen in this real estate ad:
Local zoning rules trump all. It isn’t legal here in southern California.
(Also not practical; the prices for industrial real estate are huge! I can afford a small apartment, but couldn’t come close to paying the monthly rent on a warehouse!)
it is pretty dang rad, too. it’s in an industrial zone. it’s an architectural salvage company. was a heavy machinery company, so it is set up with a small portion of brick frontage structure that leads into the warehouse (the brick part was the front offices for the machine company back in the 40s). they converted this brick office portion into a very cool english style flat. single living unit…
as an artist, it fits me better than anything i can imagine. i can play drums at 4 am, run saws or whatever else while i build things, and have space to take on art projects of any scale.
anecdotal excitement aside, i wondered the same thing.
i think it’s all about however your local laws fall. in this case, we had a city office go in next door and fought it, thus having to disclose my living situation and so on. no one cried foul. police come do walkthroughs when the alarm goes off, they always act surprised someone lives here but never question the legality. down the street, a man owns a warehouse/company that does glasswork. he filed for divorce and built him a bachelor’s pad on the roof (and now lives there).
i think this is the same as old storefronts who have businesses downstairs but living quarters above.
You can be fined as it’s illegal in an area zoned industrial commercial but someone has to complain so as long as you keep a low profile and not admit to living there nothing likely to happen.
That’s along the lines of what I thought, although I thought the owners would be fined and I would be evicted.
I do keep a low profile. I’m sure some of the people in the neighboring units suspect I live there as they see me coming out at 7:30 each morning to go to work, but so far no complaints after more than a year. They may actually be happy about it since I would be there to call the police if I saw anyone breaking in to one of the units.
in my case, there’s a “sleep it off” detox center next door (i said a city related building went in next door and we fought it–that was the case. we really didn’t want the state’s largest city’s detox center next door). they have places to sleep for the night and things of that nature.
likewise, on the same square block, there’s a new homeless-type shelter. it is a little unusual, as it isn’t the main shelter for this section of the city…it’s more like a short term facility.
within two blocks is a salvation army halfway house/room and board center. so i am curious now about the zoning of this area. it is an industrial sector with neighborhoods starting one block to the north. however, this stretch of road (approximately a mile’s worth) is sectioned off and renamed (it is a portion of 6th street but has it’s own unique name for this part of the road). this section has nearly only businesses and warehouses on it, but there are at least 2 houses between buildings alone the way. at the end of the road, right before it turns back into 6th, there are a few residential spaces (a duplex and a fourplex, i believe).
so, my curiosity is piqued for the zoning 'round here. it seems to me if the city put a sleep-overnight facility next door, living quarters would be permitted.
In threads like this, I always find it a trifle annoying when people generalize from their local experience without explicitly saying so.
Trinopus almost nailed the right answer, so to speak, with “Local zoning rules trump all.” In point of fact, the only correct answer to this thread’s topic question other than whatever happens to be true in the OP’s home community, would be a database over 1 MB large, and probably dozens of MBs of text answers in VB posts.
Some generic answers can be given:
In common law (~English-speaking) jurisdictions, it is legal to do whatever the law has not proscribed as illegal, either specifically and explicitly or as a logical inference from other prohibitions. (Civil law jurisdictions like Italy and France do things differently.)
AFAIK every Federalized common-law country allocates land use regulation to the states or provinces. The overwhelming majority, perhaps all, of them then delegate zoning regulations to the cities, counties, towns, or villages.
Some zoning laws designate areas for specific uses, e.g., retail commercial. Neither residences nor warehouses and factories can be built there, only stores (and restaurants, theaters, and other service-oriented ‘stores’). Others use a cumulative zoning system where some areas are single-family residential, others are multi-family (but permit single-family as well), others are commercial (but permit single- and multi-family residential too), and others industrial (but permit both kinds of residential plus commercial along with it). You can have heavy and light industrial zones, restrict big-box commerical to areas where large lots are available, etc. You would need to be somewhere where residential uses are permitted in warehouse or industrial areas.
Public health and safety laws are distinct from zoning sensu stricto and must also be complied with. You need running water, a way to dispose of your sewage, electrical access, in most areas heating and in some air conditioning, adequate fire safety precautions (fire alarms, smoke detectors, emergency exits from all parts of your apartment, etc.).
So it’s a mixed message: 1. Yes, you can, provided someone hasn’t made it illegal to do so. But 2. It’s quite likely that someone has.
Thank you Polycarp. It peeves me to no end when people ask about a situation governed by local ordinance but then are totally secretive about what municipality they live in.
I guess an old coot should instead see it as remarkable that in less than a generation we’ve gone from “you can communicate instantly with someone on the other side of the world!” to “I assume things must be the same all over the world.”
I’ve seen this in a few TV shows and movies, where somebody had a few carpets and furniture set out in the corner of a huge warehouse, and it always looked like an interesting way to live, if you don’t mind having to chase things you dropped halfway across the warehouse if they’re inclined to roll. It’d be great if you were an RC helicopter or dirigible fan…
In addition to the localness of zoning laws, it’s my understanding that it’s sometimes legal to live in a commercial/industrial zone, but not to convert such to living space. I.e., if you rent, you’re not doing anything illegal, but your landlord is. No idea what this means in terms of eviction, though.
It’s strictly local, as already said. A friend lived in a converted warehouse in the SOHO district of Manhattan, but in order to do it legally, they had to make the case that his wife was an artist. She was–sort of–she built puppets, but had a separate place for that, so their case was pretty thin.
Then there’s property tax laws. Commercial rates are usually lower than “mixed use” (residential/commercial) rates. The second a residential unit is rented out, the owner should notify the town to change his property tax status.
I was coming in to say this. Your local council will almost certainly have different property taxes for residential and commercial property.
I once considered buying a former warehouse that had been converted into a ‘live/work’ space. Basically, the ground floor was a studio/office and the upper floors a home. The council had only granted planning permission for the conversion on this basis as they wanted to maintain a commercial zone in the area, and they charged different property taxes for the ground floor from the upper floors – in this instance, the commercial rates were higher than the residential rates (this was in the UK).
