“But if you realise they’ve accidentally undercharged you, either at the time or later after you’ve left the store, but decide not to go back and pay for it, then (technically) it’s theft.”
What are you precisely basing this on? Once the cashier charges you and you pay, you and the cashier have both created and performed the contract. This is assuming that you were not deliberately or accidentally hiding something from the cashier. Is this explicitely dealt with?
It will be interesting to see this come up in court one day. You may be aware that there are keyless entry and start cars now. In theory, you approch the car, sit down and drive away, with the key in your pocket. In practice, one day you will leave the key in the car while you walk away, and someone else who owns a similar car will absent-mindedly drive away.
I know of one case where this has almost happened. I’m waiting with interest to hear what happens when the police get involved.
BTW, where I live there is no special “joy riding” law. It’s just defined as strict-liability theft.
I haven’t thought about this for some time, but I almost became a poster boy for exactly this scenario.
I had an old Mustang back when I was 18 or so, and after grabbing some stuff at the store, I went back to the car, unlocked the door, got in, put the key in the ignition, and…
suddenly realized there was baby stuff on the passenger side. “Hmm,” thinks I, “who put that there?” Which, of course, started the process that ended with the realization that this was not my car. Quietly getting out and half-expecting some furious mama bear to charge me with her shopping cart, I saw that my car was two or three spaces further down in the lot.
For a long time I wondered what would have happened if I would have tried to turn the ignition…
Question: Will anybody believe you lacked intent?
I suppose if it’s similar to what happened to me with the car, why not? Cars look the same, keys work in both…every alternative explanation is more fantastical than a simple mistake.
If you mean a merchant not putting the item in your bag? It will all depend on what happens next, I guess. If the merchant puts it aside for a reasonable time period in canse the customer comes back to claim the item, then lack of intent would be pretty clear. If he simply takes it home with him, then it becomes more reasonable to assume intent.
You could actually commit a robbery unintentionally.
I remember a TV movie from the 1980s which was a about a group of travellers from Germany who visit the United States for the first time. The tour guide warns the travellers about muggers and pickpockets and urges everybody to be extremely alert.
At the hotel, the protagonist, still very excited about everything and jet-lagged, leaves his room to explore the property. In the elevator, he bumps into a stranger. Half a minute or so later, he remembers the warnings about pickpockets and their modus operandi. He checks for his wallet: It’s not there! He runs back all the way he came from, finds the man he ran into earlier, grabs him by his jacket and shouts at him: “You bastard, gimme the wallet!”. The other guy, terribly frightened, does as ordered.
Minutes later, the protagonist realizes that the wallet he just took away from the stranger is not his. He also remembers that his own wallet actually is still in his hotel room.
Yes, I get it now. I even knew I had misspelled rung, but too late to change it.
Hey, that was Peter.
I think the chances of that happening are very, very slim. You would need two exact cars where one driver (driver A) leaves the key in their car and doesn’t lock the door. Assuming driver B is in the habit of locking his car, upon trying to unlock the car, the car will beep angrily at him (first clue). If driver B also doesn’t care about locking/unlocking doors, he would still need to overlook all the possible differences in driver A’s car (seat and mirror position, radio station, personal items, trunk contents, etc.), as well as the Smart Key sitting somewhere in the car. Even if driver B manages to miss all that and drive off, I doubt the result would amount to any more than a humerous misunderstanding.
Here is how it would likely play out:
–driver B drives off in driver A’s car.
–driver A comes out and car is missing.
–It probably won’t take long for driver A to notice driver B’s identical car parked nearby.
–Police run the tags on driver B’s car and track him down.
–Hilarity insues.
Don’t underestimate the likelihood of it happening with the new keyless systems. There have been cases of people driving off in the wrong car even with regular old keys because they coincidentally parked near a car of the same make, model, and color as theirs that their keys worked in to open the doors and start.
(Bear in mind this is under English law). The contract you agreed with the cashier was that you would pay full price. If he accidentally undercharges you, and you realise it was an accident - whether at the time or later on - then you’ve knowingly underpaid.
Now if you genuinely thought the cashier had charged you less deliberately, because he’s nice or because you’re a good customer, then that wouldn’t meet the definition of theft.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
So, then based upon that, if the merchant does charge you for the item, but “forgets” to put in in your bag, is he guilty of theft? How about later, when he realizes what he has done?
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How would he find the customer? If he has contact details, such as a phone number, then he should take reasonable steps to contact the customer. If he has no contact details, I’d say he should hold the item aside for a period of time in case the customer comes back to collect it. The question is whether the cashier was ‘dishonest’ in keeping the property, and whether he has the intention of permanently depriving the customer of it.
NB: Incidentally, to answer the OP’s question clearly: No, not under English law. Here the ‘intention’ to permanently deprive, and the mental state of ‘dishonesty’ in doing so, are requirements for it to be deemed theft.
A little off topic, but.
Grocery shopping this weekend, this thread on my mind.
My local supermarket has a fairly extensive bakery and prepared foods section. It’s located near several industrial businesses and there aren’t a lot of fast food options nearby so they do a fair amount of breakfast/lunch business.
There’s always a coffeepot out, I always figured they sold coffee to go with the morning pastries.
This morning I noticed a big sign over the coffeepot
FREE COFFEE
and I thought of HoneyBadgerDC as I poured a cup. Free coffee, who knew
I tried doing a search but all it did was find me other comics. Doh!
I recall reading about something similar, where someone borrowed the other fellow’s car for the evening (trailer hitch), so they swapped car keys. It was the type (Camry?) where you just needed the key in your pocket. he went down to the employee parking lot, got in drove away… Came back the next day, parked it, and the fellow said “why didn’t you take the car?” Turns out it was an identical model, and the owner being lazy left the key inside the car.
In the case I knew, the (thief) was actually driving his other car. The (identical) car was with his wife at the time.