Is it merely religious bigotry that keeps Prostitution illegal?

How so? What are the “religious reasons” for opposing prostitution?

I know that many people oppose prostitution for moral reasons, and that religious people’s morality is generally informed by their religion, but it is possible to hold moral beliefs, including the belief that prostitution is immoral, without being religious. So what’s the link between religion and prostitution?

Well no, they weren’t the ones who were supposed to put out in that situation. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sorry, but it was just sitting there all irresistible-like.

This may sound like a funny question, but the above quote by mswas leads me to wonder if prostitution IS illegal? I don’t know about the US with its 50 criminal codes, but in Canada, where the the criminal code is federal, it is solliciting and pimping that are illegal, but not prostitution as such. And I suspect that the situation may be the same in many US states.

Why? Because THERE IS NOWHERE TO DRAW THE LINE! when you want to illegalize prostitution.

My dictionary defines prostitution as “the act of engaging in sexual intercourse for pay”.

Okay, so now, please tell me when this becomes prostitution.

John meets Sally on the street and they strike up a conversation. He invites her for a drink. John says Sally turns him on. Sally says: “They rent rooms here you know!” John rents a room and he pays for it. They go up and have sex. They both enjoyed it and exchange phone numbers, promising to meet again. John says he is short of money right now to catch a taxi. Hasn’t been paid because his employer is going broke. Could Sally spot him something? Sally puts $200 on the nightstand. "Go ahead, stud, take it, I’m good for it. You’ll find a way to pay me back, she giggles. John takes it, with thanks.

(PS: John is a 25-year-old hunk and Sally is 50 and past her prime. But John has a long history of dating older women because he is genuinely turned on by them.).

In the following weeks, John and Sally meet often, at Sally’s luxury condo. They have sex each time. Sally buys John expensive watches and other gifts. She regularly gives him $200 to “help him out until he gets a job.” John protests, but she says, “Relax, I enjoy helping you out and I’m loaded.”

Is there prostitution going on here? Where do you draw the line?

I couldn’t even figure it out, until you highlighted the word “to”. Ah, what a difference an “o” makes.

I don’t think it’s “merely” religion that keeps it legal. Personally, I think prostitution is just plain icky. I don’t want to share a Coca-Cola with another person let alone have my little guy run into a public arch. I’m also for the legalization of prostitution but on a personal level it’s just gross.

There are some other reasons why prostitution might be legal. Do you want a brothel opening up near you? The only legal brothels here in the United States are located in areas where there aren’t a lot of neighbors (I think, someone might confirm that for me because I’m lazy.) Prostitution isn’t seen as an honorable profession and I don’t think that’s going to change any time soon. Those of us who favor legalization probably don’t want to see our sons or daughters make a living at whoring no matter how good they might be at it.

Odesio

Well I live in New York City so it’s likely that there is a brothel near me already, I just don’t know about it. :wink: But people could open sole proprietorships anyway and it would just be a lady who discreetly entertains guests.

I’m losing track of the debate here. Is it:

  1. Is it religiously bigotry that keeps prostitution illegal? (I think that has been answered in the negative)
  2. Is it bigotry to look down on someone because of their profession? (I think the answer is that “bigot” is the wrong term, maybe snobbery is better?)
  3. Is it, should prostition be legalized?

Cecil has a good article on why prostitution is illegal. I don’t think it’s solely because of religious prejudice.

-XT

If it was legal they wouldn’t be walking the streets.

Hell street walking is already mostly a thing of the past. Though the new regulation on Craigslist might change that.

Uh, actually we do. Most schizophrenic behavior is perfectly legal. It’s not a crime to suffer from delusions, schizophasia (“word salad”), lack of affect, etc.

With regards to the OP, I don’t think it’s so much RELIGIOUS bigotry as in morals in general. Many atheists have claimed that they don’t need religion to direct their moral compass, and to a certain degree it’s true. However, more often than not it’s an atheist that would argue for the legalization of marijuana, prostitution, and other vices.

Now i’m not saying that marijuana or prostitution are deadly sins, but it does speak volumes as to the type of society that we would like to be. In keeping those things in the realm of the black market, it takes a moral stand that those behaviors are frowned upon by the society as a whole, regardless of religious affiliation. If you really want to play the odds and break the law, you can go ahead and do so, and more likely than not you will not be punished for it.

However the second you decriminalize, or even legalize either, you’re saying that as a society it’s acceptable to go bag a hooker and blow some spleef which some would say as a liberation of society, but I for one see as a step backwards morally as a society.

I’m saying this as an atheist who has strong moral convictions. I’m basing the moral loosening in that if I had to explain this to a child, or even a teenager that it is “bad” to go solicit a hooker, I’d have a tougher time justifying myself if prostitution was legalized.

pancakes3 Yeah, I disagree with you completely. I think I should be able to snort coke off of a hooker after winning both in a poker game. I don’t believe in legislating personal morality and think that it’s actually a greater moral failing to do so than it is to allow it.

But…you are definitely getting the spirit of the debate. Where do you think your moral ideas on these topics stem from?

I don’t understand this. It is perfectly legal to lay around the house all day drinking cheap whiskey, playing with your penis, and watching The Montel Williams Show, but I wouldn’t have a problem telling my kid that it probably isn’t the best lifestyle.

Legal does not equal good, moral, and acceptable. It just means that you are free to partake of that activity without getting in trouble with the cops…

…I’m sure you will be able to find statistics to support your conclusions, but legalization done right in practice does work, and work well.

New Zealand has had legalised prostitution for a few years now: and in my humble opinion the industry is safer for both sides and working extremely well. I support legalised prostitution and challenge you to find a reason why the law should be changed here in New Zealand.

This is a really good argument.

Except for that where it has been legalized there were even more women walking the street afterward.

I can’t find any decent numbers on trafficking or even the number of prostitutes. The Prostitution Law Review Committee appears says that there were 5000+ prostitutes in 2003 but their last survey only found 3000. Not because the number of prostitutes diminished, but because they changed their survey methodology. At the same time, there’s several reports that the number of prostitutes has doubled or quadrupled. So pretty much that’s just unknown.

Until there’s good, consistent data, making any judgement on the state of things in NZ is foolhardy. It’s possible that with NZ being out of the way that they’ll be able to stay clean, but so far there’s no reason to think that NZ will escape the problems that have occurred in every other country.

If it stays clean, well then I’m happy for you, but I wouldn’t hold out hope. I also wouldn’t trust a government oversight committee that can double or half their survey results in any given year based on methodology.

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/Report%20on%20NZ%2010-29-2008.pdf (PDF)
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:1eFvvWuq078J:www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/prostitution_spain_july04.pdf+new+zealand+trafficking+prostitution&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
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…concession accepted.

Let’s pretend that I’m pro legalized prostitution. In fact let’s pretend that I’m in the process of studying to be a BDSM dom, which is a related profession.

Why pretend that? Because it’s true! Wow!

So I say again, I haven’t seen reliable data. Prostitutionresearch.com has never appeared to be a source for unbiased information. Neither of the other two links I included gives much in the way of actual numbers.

But, at least I looked for something concrete. Saying that everything appears okay from where you’re sitting is a meaningless statistic. You might as well go visit some rich politician in Mexico who’s under house arrest and say that prison conditions in Mexico are better than in the US, if all you’re looking at is reviews of high end brothels. So find data that seems reliable year to year and present it if you think there’s something there. But at the same time realize that if New Zealand is doing well, that’s an anomaly. In all other places where there’s been legalized prostitution, it hasn’t had the benevolent effects that were intended, from what all data I’ve seen–generally in the form of government reports.

…for starters you need to prove that there is something inherently wrong with prostitution. If I want to have sex with somebody else in exchange for money, why should I not have the right to do that?

You originally stated:

This is an absolute statement: I believe you are wrong.

I believe that New Zealand proves that in practice legalizing prostitution can help solve some of the issues you were talking about.

The US State Department report you cited has widely been disputed and relies on figures from 2004. It is widely considered to be a joke.

Earlier you stated:

Taking this point by point:

the number of prostitutes who purchased a license and operated in a legal brothel, etc. is minor.

In New Zealand a licence is only required if a brothel has four or more workers: so the many sex workers do not even need a licence. This Justice Department commisioned reports have some relevant statistics:

http://www.justice.govt.nz/prostitution-law-review-committee/publications/impact-health-safety/ex-summary.html

Most prostitutes remain as illegal workers, under the same conditions as before, and the legality of it brings more money into the industry, and actually doubles (on average) the number of illegal prostitutes working in a country–usually trafficked in from another country.

Please provide evidence this is an issue in New Zealand.

**The problem is that most prostitutes are underage, drug addicts, runaways, or otherwise being used as the property of an abusive slimeball. **

For New Zealand I would like you to prove this assertion.

**And unfortunately, it looks like most of the customership of prostitutes is more than happy to make the jump to illegal workers. It lets them pay less and get more. **

Sorry to have to ask again: but again in context of New Zealand can you provide any proof of this?

They can hit the girl, have anal sex, forgo using a condom, or whatever else they want

Again, from a New Zealand perspective can your provide any data that proves this is the case?

You state that New Zealand may well be an “anomaly”. I have looked at the implementation of some sex work laws in other countries in part based on previous posts you have made, and many of those implementations are fundementally flawed. But I wouldn’t look at New Zealand as an anomaly, I would look at us as the model. The legistlation was drafted in full consultation with the community, the police, and the prostitutes themselves. It treats all participants in the industry with respect: from the guys and girls who use the services to the men and women who provide them.

I’ve quoted her before: I will quote her again. This is Georgina Beyer: former Mayor and NZ Minister of Parliament, Transexual,former prostitute, and a wonderful, wonderful lady.

(Hansard transcript reprinted under Section 27 of the NZ copyright act.)

http://www.hansard.parliament.govt.nz/hansard/Final/FINAL_2003_06_25.htm#_Toc67114307