I just learned (after the fact) that yesterday my daughter’s school invited in an activist to make a presentation to them about veganism. This was to a group of 9 and 10 year olds. This was part of a larger programme of presenting different world views and points of view.
Generally I like this idea (very different from when I was a kid), but I am a bit concerned about the impacts letting an activist try to ‘sell’ them on veganism. As it is, we have a very hard time trying to get my daughter to eat, and I fear that should she choose to adopt veganism, there could be negative nutritional impacts. Not eating meat is one thing, but I really worry what would happen if she avoided eggs and dairy. She is not at all interested in the vegan alternative foods like tofu and most pulses.
Do you think it was irresponsible of the school to invite this speaker? Do you think that kids should be exposed to veganism at this age?
I should mention that this person was actually an activist, not a nutritional professional, ecologist, etc. Apparently he even showed a shock video with images inside an abbatoir….
I don’t think that last part is appropriate, for sure. I’m against using shock value in these sorts of things in general, and even more so with children. If they can’t make an argument that doesn’t need emotionally disturbing images, then they don’t have a good argument. This would be just as true with the pro-life fetus thing, too.
On the other hand, I don’t generally object to children being exposed to the ideas of veganism or vegetarianism. However, the issue of picky eaters is not one I’d considered. I don’t really have much experience there. I definitely can see how veganism plus picky eating would be hard to deal with. On the other hand, I could see how, if you already don’t have much you like to eat, having to restrict it even more would be unappealing. Most picky eaters I know do not like the bulk of the diet that a vegetarian would need to consume, let along a vegan.
If it does come up, one idea I had is to make a sort of deal. “I’ll get you vegan foods to try, but you have actually eat them. If you don’t, then we’ll know you’re not ready to be a vegan.” That last part is deliberately phrased to not make it seem like you’re punishing her, and to leave it open if she changes her mind in the future.
But that’s just based on reading the parenting guides that my parents had lying around from when I was born. It’s not based on any experience.
If that was my child, I’d be having a meeting with the principal, the scenario as you presented it is not acceptable or appropriate in any way. That was not “presenting” an alternate style of eating/living, that was indoctrination pure and simple.
My kids get regular messages from the school about moral messages like sharing with others, giving to charity, not littering, doing good things for the environment, etc. None of those are controversial.
Being vegan is good for the environment and is nice to animals. I don’t know enough about this specific presentation to say I’d have a problem with it, but I don’t think anyone really has an objection to “points of view based on the speaker’s morality” in general. Certainly I’d have an issue with someone coming in to promote a carnivore lifestyle, same as I’d have an issue with someone coming in talking about how great littering is.
What were some of the other worldviews and points of view presented?
Obviously the school can’t present every POV, and the issue usually becomes that everyone is upset that their POV wasn’t presented. If the school presents Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, the atheists, Buddhists, and pagans get upset. If the school presents veganism, the pisco-lacto-ova-vegetarians feel excluded.
I am assuming from your spelling of “programme” that you are not in the US. I am, although my kids are grown. My preferred resolution would be that the schools inform me ahead of time that they are going to be presenting activists. and allow me to opt my child out, if I felt the presentation was one-sided, or inappropriate for a given student (like veganism for a child with eating issues).
To a large extent it depends on how much it is information, and how much it is activism, and that is a very blurry line. I can certainly see “this is what Islam teaches, this is what vegans believe, this is what Liberal Democrats believe”, etc. "You should become vegan because X, Y, and Z’ is more problematic, and I don’t know if the line can be clear either way.
Helping people, following the law, and not thrashing the planet are not “moral” stances.
I’d have the same issue with an assembly that told my 9 and 10 year kids to “eat as much meat as you can, because it’s a good way to live!” from some dumb activist person.
An assembly that laid out “This is veganism, this is cave-man diet, this is Keto” without actual promoting any of them would be fine with me.
I think the issue is that 9 year olds aren’t really equipped with the scientific, emotional, ethical or critical thinking skills to effectively evaluate whether veganism is a proper lifestyle for themselves.
I’m reminded of some students when I was about 10 (1982-ish), who totally pitched an absolute fit about the country having nuclear weapons, because they saw some kind of commercials or something about the Nuclear Freeze movement. They didn’t know what a nuclear weapon was, they didn’t know why the US and USSR were at odds with each other, and they didn’t know what the actual effects of a nuclear weapon were (none of us did), but they did feel very threatened because of the propaganda and were bugging the absolute shit out of their classmates and teachers about it.
I can’t help but think that something similar might have happened, had the school let in a vegan activist to give us a presentation.
What’s wrong with a kid knowing about where their food comes from? What you call a “shock video” others might call a peek behind the curtain. I don’t think kids need to be steeped in gore for its own sake, but they should know that meat comes from living animals that are killed, and that the killing is done on an industrial scale in an industrial way. If it doesn’t put them off meat altogether, it will at least make them appreciate the meat on their plates, and the lives that were extinguished to put it there, a little more. I find it difficult to understand any objection to that.
Further, by coming to know about industrial meat production they might actually start to think about where ALL of their food comes from, and how production is often a compromise between personal and environmental safety, and the yields necessary to feed a planet. And from there, they might start to think about where all of their stuff comes from, who makes it, and at what personal cost to the workers and at what cost to the ecology.
If you think, as I do, that school is about preparing kids to survive in the world, then I think the event as described in the OP is not only a good idea, but should also be a required and often repeated lesson.
They are if they aren’t coddled from womb to adulthood. Life, real life, is messy and unpleasant most of the time. Most of their parents don’t understand that, but that doesn’t mean the illusion we currently live should be allowed to endure. And what is wrong with veganism? It’s sustainable, it’s not unhealthy, and it’s conscionable.
I have no kids, but thinking about this hypothetically, I would be fine with a school presenting veganism as part of a teaching program that included all kinds of human cultural behaviors, without favoring one over the other.
But inviting a vegan activist whose purpose is to persuade a class full of kids that they should be vegans, that seems to me very troubling and something that parents should have at least known about in advance.
I think it’s mildly inappropriate, but not enough for me to do anything about. Right up until the slaughterhouse video, at which point it became incredibly inappropriate, in the “I’m talking to other parents and visiting the principal, and we’re not leaving until the person who approved this presentation is disciplined” sense. Escalating to the school board if the principal blows me off. As well as demanding notice of any future such presentation, with the ability to opt my child out.
I find nothing immoral about never helping someone. Perhaps you consider that immoral, but that is based on your own morality. Something I’d like to avoid exposing my kids to while they are in school - someone else’s morality.
??? Did you mean to say “avoid exposing to” or “avoid subjecting to”. Because the first is mind-opening and educational, but the second is potentially dangerous. And there is probably a thick gray line dividing the two ideas.
But some of us (not you, apparently) consider it morally correct to help other people. And you’d have no problem with us teaching your kids that helping other people is morally correct, right?