I think most people do accept that Christians accept the resurrection of Jesus etc as “absolutely true on the inside” (usual caveats about different branches of Christianity pertaining, of course). And if you want to be a Christian, go right ahead. It doesn’t even require surgery (unlike Judaism :D).
The objections usually arise when the Christian insists that everyone else believe it too. You may as well insist they all change their genders according to what you feel is right.
And bam… now we know that this thread/slightly wonky OP is really about.
Please strive for a bit more intellectual honesty in your future posting, it’s a bit more… Christianly.
In the case of a hermaphrodite they only have one working genital. Either the penis is the dominant organ, or it’s the vagina…
whatever the case this person is either going to have dominant male or female genitalia and whatever is dominant is what makes the gender of that person.
this isn’t even the case with the child I mentioned in the OP. At least this wasn’t told on the news.
I’m sure there have been cases where neither genitalia functioned for it’s sexual purpose… but this person is still either born a male or a female. There isn’t a third gender and they can’t choose what they are born as and they’re not actually born as both. People are either male or female… and if you have the proper working parts then what ever the function of your parts is what makes you male or female. It’s not what you believe or want to be… especially when it comes to scientific fact… agreed?
If it was all what someone believed on the inside then I just don’t understand why Christians get so much flak for what they believe is true on the inside.
Like I said… I’m all for letting a person choose how and what they want to do with their life and I’m not going to stand in their way. I’m would tell them one time and one time only that I think they are seriously disturbed to make such a decision and I’d leave it at that. If this were someone I knew personally I’d love them all the same and wouldn’t treat them any differently. I would not call him a her or her a him… I just couldn’t bring myself to do that. I’m sure if I were close personal friends with a transsexual they would be accepting of that just like I accepted what they choose to be true, but just because they believe it to be true doesn’t mean I believe it is true.
In the case of the 8 year old child (who was born a male or female… not a hermaphrodite), if it were my child, I would talk with him/her each and every day trying to teach them what the truth is and I would gently try to guide the child to accept his/her naturally born physical self, regardless of what he/she felt on the inside. I would explain to the child that as long as he/she was under my care, provision, guidance, and roof, or until he/she was considered a legal adult, that he/she would at least have to publicly display and act his/her naturally born gender. I wouldn’t allow my son to act like a girl, but I wouldn’t harshly punish my son (or daughter who believed to be male).
It is scientific fact that a child’s mind is not fully developed until a certain age… so this child may not even be making a sensible and logical decision… could just be a phase… which is exactly why I wouldn’t encourage it.
When it all boils down to it… the strongest and most influential force in a child’s life is they way they are raised by their parent(s) or guardian. However, the human will is a force that cannot be reckoned with and all humans make their own choice and do as they please.
…but if you’re born a male then you’re a male. If you’re born a female then you’re a female… in the case of a hermaphrodite you find out which sexual organ is the more dominant and functioning part and you raise the child to be that gender.
Please go back and read threemae’s post.
Sometimes, that mocking and ridiculing is deserved. It’s deserved when the “Christian” takes the arrogant attitude that they already know the complete truth about everything and don’t have to listen to, consider, or learn from anything that anybody else says.
I really see no percentage in treating someone as a gender other than the one they identify as, for virtually all purposes (I’ve outlined an exception or two in a since-closed thread). What advantage do you see in treating a child as the gender of their apparent genitalia instead of as the gender of their self-identification?
Assuming that the child takes care not to impinge on others (e.g., doesn’t insist on public showers with children of their identified gender), I see no reason to insist on identifying the child according to their birth gender.
No.
Christians get a lot of flak for wanting everyone else to believe what they believe, and being pretty damn rude about it.
Yeah, right.
You know, when I start threads, I actually read every post before making another of my own.
What if it has no penis, but a vagina/clitoris, and XY chromosomes and internal testes?
Except, what you believe isn’t science fact. And no, gender isn’t “either male or female.”
I guess so. I find it kind of weird, but s/he doesn’t have the right to attend Catholic School.
But these people just need to accept what their body was born as and what their sexual parts were intended for. A man may feel like a woman on the inside, but you’re not a man on the outside, and your body is intended to live life as a male.
Alcoholics have a genetic and biological problem… yet they are told to resist what their mind and body craves because if they don’t then it could seriously complicate and destroy their life.
I won’t argue against this being a biological condition… but there are plenty of biological conditions that people need to learn to overcome and live with and not give into (like alcoholism) or it is going to seriously damage their body (like when people have surgery to reassign their genders… they are damaging and mutilating their bodies).
I believe that a transsexual would be much happier and healthier if they did not give into what their body and mind desired, and if they just tried their absolute best to live the way God and nature intended for men and women to live.
Really this gets into the issue of sin and whatnot… but I won’t go there… except that I believe each and every person has a major mental and biological problem that they need to learn to overcome through the power of God and His Son Jesus and His Holy Spirit. Laugh if you will… mock me if you must… don’t believe me at all… but this is what I believe to be true… so I (along with those who believe like me) must have some part of my brain that’s speckled differently… because if transsexualism is a biological condition then Christianity or similar moral beliefs must be a biological condition too that not everyone has.
So what is it?
There is a specific disorder where a person is born with vagina, labia, and testes, and eventually develops a penis from the clitoris that can ejaculate naturally. What do you raise this child as? When they grow up, they can identify as either male or female (or somewhere in between!)
In cattle, there’s a situation called freemartinism. You can have female and male calf twins in the womb, and the female is often exposed to male hormones in development. What does this do? When the female calf is born, it physically manifests as entirely female and does so throughout it’s life. But, instead of acting female, it acts like it’s a male. Should we consider the freemartin deranged and having a warped psychology who just needs to get a little therapy and to be dressed in pink little dresses?
I think he asked a legitimate question about the nature of belief. He got a legitimate answer, now it’s on him to accept it or not, but it’s a fair question.
Luckily, this isn’t a matter of opinion and there are ways to study if transexuals are happier and healthier if they repress what they feel like they are on the inside. Left untreated, a very disturbingly high percentage end up killing themselves. Is suicide a sign of happiness? Is death a sign of good health?
No. This is wrong. Read your own fucking thread.
Their bereaved families disagree.
What?
Why?
And, as a minor point, I think you’re doing a grave disservice to Christianity if you equate belief in it to something generated by atypical exposure to certain types of hormones during development. Isn’t Christianity inherently about making a free choice to believe in God? Or are you seriously arguing it’s a biological condition?
Why?
That’s pretty ignorant right there. Sexual identity is what someone feels. Why should it matter what the penis or vagina says. Our society has different social rules for men and women, why shouldn’t someone with a physiological anomaly that makes them identify with the opposite sex have the courtesy of being treated with the social rules that he identifies with?
A stupid analogy. Alcoholism is self destructive. Identifying as a woman while male isn’t a dangerous addiction that leads to early death.
Again, you’re equating a transgendered individual with someone with a self destructive condition.
Luckily what you believe isn’t worth very much. 
Only if you believe theological sin exists. You’re assuming that because you’ve chosen to believe in childish fairy stories that others should abide by the ignorant teachings of your church. That’s as asinine as Trekkers demanding that Klingon literature be taught in school.
As one of the Offenderati (accept no substitutes) I’d like to thank everybody for the understanding and knowledge shown in this thread.
Lobohan, you’re not helping the argument. The point here is to persuade Lacunae Quell WITHOUT insulting his religion. After all, we have plenty of religious folks (Christians, certainly!) here that do not believe as he does when it comes to issues of gender and sexuality.
DocCathode, for example, is Jewish (Orthodox?) and yet he does not feel the way the OP does.
You may not see it… those who think and mentally function like you may not see it… but I sure see it. You, sir, are the one promoting ignorance.
Using a logic similar to YOUR logic about what makes people male and female… I’m going to make this claim… and nothing you say can refute it and what I claim is absolutely true…
I’m a male on the outside, yes. I was naturally born a male human from a female human (well… semi-naturally born… I’m a c-section baby)… I function like a human male, think like a human male, look like a human male… but I’m not a human male. No, sir… I’m not human at all. Not on the inside at least. I’m a god. I don’t have an actual gender. So please… for your own sake… don’t argue with me. If it’s not about the plumbing and it’s all about what’s in my head… then what I say is true because I know what I am and you can’t tell me any differently.
So let the boys be girls and let the girls be boys if they want to… but don’t you dare try and tell me what I just said is false or that I’m crazy or that I’m ignorant. You can’t. You don’t have the right… according to your logic… or your science. Whatever it is that convinces you to believe people who are naturally born men or women can be anything but.
nope… just stop… shh… don’t even post anymore if you aren’t going to agree with me. I’m a god. I’m sorry if you don’t like it. I don’t like the fact that we give mentally disturbed people reasons to believe they can be the gender they believe to be (or their mind shows them to be) but they’re allowed to choose. So it’s my choice, because I know my mind isn’t a human mind. I see the way humans think and I don’t think like that. I’m obviously not human. I’m a god… or something… but I’m not human…
…on the inside.