I can relate to this feeling. I have a really tough time coming to terms with the fact that my high school friend is now a she. I have a real hard time thinking that the male version of my friend wasn’t real. I just can’t do it. I accept that she is a female now and I even have a layman’s grasp of the physiological and psychological aspects of transgender identity, but, for some reason, I have a difficult time grasping the changes.
I simply accept it because I didn’t want to throw away years of friendship. It’s still a little strange to me but I’m ok with it. I do understand why it’s hard for others to accept though. I’m going to share a hippie moment with you. Human beings deserve compassion, respect, and understanding. I know it’s a bit strange but transgendered people deserve those three things as do we all.
Folks who “think and morally function” as I do? You mean people who actually pay attention to the science regarding gender as you have willfully ignored both prior to starting this thread and subsequent to having multiple posters point out your errors?
I have no idea what is gong on in the mind or body of the child referenced in the OP. What I do know is that you have made declarative statements regarding sex and gender–basically boiling down to external plumbing equals TRUTH–that are not supported by science. Your “facts” are contradicted by the sciences of endocrinology, DNA, the various observations of brain function, and a host of others. As long as you continue to post your binary view of the world in contradiction of known facts, you will fail to persuade anyone of your (wrongheaded) opinions while inviting scorn from those who have more genuine knowledge than you are displaying.
If you want liposuction to suck out some of that fat, you can find a doctor who will do that. There is no surgical procedure that will make you taller, so you’re out of luck on that.
I’m not sure it is a big problem except insofar as our culture imposes certain expectations that make is socially awkward for a person to change genders.
One option you didn’t present is to reject these notions of binary gender. Plenty of cultures have more than two genders. Obviously there’s a current western cultural reality of binary gender that a kid growing up today has to deal with. But cultures change and we can make efforts to change them.
Are you hijacking your own thread for any particular reason?
If you would like to submit a thread decrying the terrible persecution of Christians in North America and Europe, then open that new thread.
If the OP was simply a bait-and-switch topic opener to let you rant about the horrors of the persecution of Christians in Europe and North America in the 21st century, then I will be happy to move this thread to the BBQ Pit for you.
[ /Modding ]
Nobody is seriously suggesting that the kid should get sex reassignment surgery right now. That would be silly, because, yes, the kid is only 8, and things could change between now and adulthood, but really, if the kid “gets his wish at 8”, that means that she gets to live as a girl, see if she’s comfortable that way, and probably have some hormone therapy later on to delay male puberty until she’s old enough to seriously consider surgery.
Worst case, the kid changes his mind as a teenager, stops taking his meds, and goes through male puberty later than usual. Not much harm done.
That can’t be worse than being raised as a boy without the benefit of hormone therapy, being told “You can make that decision when you’re an adult”, and going through male puberty unwillingly. Then, when the kid is finally old enough to consent to sex reassignment surgery, she’s saddled with facial hair, a deep voice, and a masculine bone structure, and thinking, “Shit, my parents are dumb”.
“After the Columbine shootings, in which two teens murdered 12 high-schoolers and a teacher, the media turned its spotlight on Christian teens. The story of 17-year-old Cassie Bernall’s courageous gunpoint proclamation of faith burned up the news wires. Media outlets also highlighted the death of Rachel Scott, a 17-year-old junior and visibly active Christian. At Rachel’s CNN-broadcast funeral, Bruce Porter, the evangelical pastor of Littleton’s Cellebration Christian Fellowship, attested to the faith of some of the slain, and delivered a crystalline gospel message that reached millions. Rachel’s younger brother Craig, who escaped the killers by feigning death in the library while lying in the blood of a dying friend, shared his faith on CNN, NBC’s Today, and other major news programs”.
"That’s what 1999 was like for Christian teens, a group that might well be called “Generation WWJD.” Teen believers-perhaps for the first time en masse-were forced to ask themselves a question many never thought they’d have to as Americans: “If someone put a gun to my head and asked, ‘Do you believe in God?’ would I say yes?”
“The Columbine massacre occurred on April 20. Five months later, the killings were bookended when, on Sept. 15, Larry Ashbrook killed eight-including five teenagers-at Wedgwood Baptist Church in Fort Worth. Once again, Christian teens had been murdered for their faith”.
Larry_Gene_Ashbrook–
“Ashbrook interrupted a teen prayer rally at the Wedgwood Baptist Church spouting anti-Baptist rhetoric before opening fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun and a .380-caliber handgun. He reloaded several times during the shooting; three empty magazines were found at the scene. Seven people were killed, four of whom were teenagers (a 14 year old boy, two 14 year old girls and a 17 year old boy)”.
sure… the rest of that wiki article goes on to say this…
"Police investigating the shooting could find no solid motive for the crime. In the months before the shooting, people who knew Ashbrook say he became increasingly paranoid, certain that he was being framed for serial murder and other crimes that he did not commit. He also feared that the CIA were targeting him, and he reported psychological warfare, assaults by co-workers and being drugged by the police. Just days before the shooting he voiced these concerns to a newspaper, saying “I want someone to tell my story, no one will listen to me; no one will believe me.”
…but that’s the police report filled out by people who weren’t eye witnesses. It just goes to show that the government, for whatever reason, comes up with a scientific reason for the murderer’s motives rather than to admit the plain and simple fact that the murderer had a hatred towards Christianity and Christians.
I don’t doubt this man had mental disturbances… but when someone goes into a church with loaded guns “spouting anti-Baptist rhetoric before opening fire”, then the murderer had the preconceived notion to take the lives of innocent people for nothing more then their Christian faith.
Regardless of what the police report states, the murderer didn’t just stumble into the church because it was the closest place to him at the time he snapped. Someone doesn’t just go into a Christian church to murder people unless they had planned on murdering someone of the Christian faith. If he simply wanted people to hear him and listen to him and he decided he was going to murder people… why would he go into a church with loaded weapons “spouting anti-Baptist (not to be confused with Anabaptist) rhetoric”? If he was actually paranoid of government conspiracies or being drugged by the police, why didn’t he just go to the nearest police station and kill police officers?
This is the key question right here: Why is it the genitalia, and not other aspects of a person’s physiological or psychological makeup, that determines what they “really” are?
Ashbrook was delusional. He was NOT persecuting Christians because they were Christians – he did it because he was insane. Delusional people aren’t well, rational. They don’t reason like you or I. You might as well ask why he didn’t go to a Dunken Donuts.
If you’re going to try and look for examples of Christianity being persecuted, what about the late Soviet Union, or the Middle East?
But look, as tom said, THAT’S a hijack to take to the Pit, and has jackshit to do with the topic: transgendered individuals, and whether or not it’s something a person “chooses.”
Yes. Some years ago, I recall reading a news story about a crazy woman who stabbed her one-night-stand boyfriend in the shower while chanting “REDRUM, REDRUM”, in an attempt to resurrect Jack the Ripper. That doesn’t mean that sacrificing men to raise Jack from the dead is a significant issue. Just as the ability to find one or two people out of a nation of hundreds of millions who kill someone for being Christian doesn’t mean that’s anything but the aberration of a few psychos.
This is pretty much the summing up of all my thoughts. Just because he’s identifying as Female doesn’t mean she’s going to get immediately become a candidate for surgery.
They have procedures and standards for these types of things- the kid will have therapy, and probably be watched for a while before they even move on to hormonal treatments, and then later in life (probably after she’s 18 or so), she can elect to move towards the surgery.
So the kid’s got time to “make up his mind” for those so worried about that sort of thing. In the meantime, the family should just try to focus on the kid being their child, and just see they get raised in a nurturing and loving environment. And Gender Identity is developed early on in children, usually setting in by age 5- and it forms the way they form play groups and socially interact. The Brain developing idea presented above is mainly for the Prefrontal cortex which doesn’t full develop until age 21-23. That’s more for judgement, thinking, and rational decisions (basically why even good teenagers do stupid things sometimes).
This kid’s 8- that’s most likely not the issue here (peer pressure, social influencing, etc)- sure his decision to maybe WANT the surgery immediately after she turns 18 without thinking it through- that you could chalk up to perhaps an immature frontal cortex, but not so much the basic concept of what she self identifies as. If she thinks she’s male or female, that’s pretty much locked in at an early age (which is a great example of this situation) and attempts to suppress it may lead to other psychological issues down the road.
The best thing to do is just give this time, and just focus on giving the kid the best education, adolescence, and nurturing environment possible rather than forcing them to conform or more negative experiences in life- we’ve all got plenty of problems in life, and there’s no need to try to add to the kid’s burdens by trying to force her to being something she simply doesn’t identify as.
This child’s parents said that since he was two years old he had shown signs of being overly feminine (although I can’t imagine how a two year old demonstrates those signs). As he grew older he began drawing pictures of little boys, then outside the drawing of the boys would draw a line pointing to a little girl inside a circle with “me” written next to the drawing of the girl. I heard no mention of “tests” being performed on the child, although they took him to therapy. I honestly believe that child doesn’t know how he actually feels… he may just want attention (sheesh, he got on the news)… or maybe he’s not feeling a love from his parents and he wants to “punish” them… heck, let’s go way out on a limb with this next one… maybe he was a female in a previous life and upon reincarnation he didn’t forget his femininity… but, alas, his parents claimed he’d been like that since he was two… so either being born that way or being a female in his previous life are the most likely scenario.
I believe each and every person has homosexual tendencies, and that each and every person has at least one homosexual experience at some point in their life (I’ll even go as so far to say that Jesus Christ had homosexual temptations… but He never gave into those desires). Usually and most likely these homoerotic experiences occur at a young age when many curiosities are piqued. I don’t believe anyone is necessarily born a homosexual, but because of a misunderstood choice the individual makes early in their childhood because of sexual curiosity. I believe all homosexual tendencies start as a lust and curiosity of the excitement of any sexual experience. Not all children are like this, not all children who have these experiences become homosexual, and not all homosexuals had a homosexual experience as a child.
I recall being a very sexually curious child… possibly as early as 2. I remember my mother taking me into the women’s public shower at the beach when I was still small enough to be carried and still young enough to where it wasn’t considered inappropriate for me to be in a room full of naked women showering. I remember looking at those women and I remember my mother telling me “don’t look around”. I remember looking anyway because I was attracted to what I saw.
…so I don’t believe the 8 year old transsexual is homosexual. Usually homosexuals don’t want to be a woman. They like being a man and are proud of being a man… and they want to have a big hairy bear pitching it to them.
I also remember having a homosexual encounter with a close friend of mine when we were young. We didn’t do much… but did I enjoy it? Well I was more curious than anything but I wasn’t scared and I was aroused… so I guess I did. I believe many homosexual men have an experience like this at a young age and later on in their life think that they must have been born homosexual if they would do something like that at such a young age, and because they enjoyed it they jump to the conclusion that they must be homosexual, and because that was their first sexual experience, and therefore likely the most intense sexual experience, that will always be sort of a fantasy, and because at that young age their mind wasn’t fully developed, their mind is scarred, and they always have a longing for that first sexual experience. This is what I’ve come to deduce from having my own homoerotic experience.
The child would be better off going to a Christian school where he would be less likely to be teased. If he went to a public school at 8 years old and acted and appeared like a girl he would probably get picked on a lot by the other boys (and likely by some girls)… probably so much to the point where he would realized he’d rather be a boy… at least in public or until he grew up and the people around him grew up and became more accepting of him and his choices… but this kid at 8 years old feels comfortable enough to go public with his choice to be transsexual… so either since he was 2 he’s actually felt like a girl and felt comfortable with it… or ever since he was 2 he’s felt like a girl and when feeling uncomfortable about it someone reassured him it would be perfectly normal and natural for him to want to be a girl.
I think I should clear one thing up… I don’t think it’s unnatural for someone to be transsexual or homosexual… I believe these things are perfectly natural. I do, however, believe that people need to be taught differently about these things. I believe these are desires and urges that need to be overcome rather than being given into, but that’s only because I believe there is such a disease called sin that has infected all mankind. I believe if all of mankind worked together as a whole to overcome sin(not just homosexuality or transsexualism… there are things I do that I consider sin), for no other reason than an attempt to love and serve their Creator through obedience and to live life the way He created us to live it… then the world would be full of peace and love, and we could finally take the next step in our evolution.
I truly and honestly believe, and this is setting religion aside, that the next step in the evolution of humankind is for each individual to learn to overcome lustful and material desires and to focus on being a selfless, loving, caring and kind person and to learn to have a brotherly love for all men. If all of mankind did this, and helped one another to meet this goal, then mankind would be able to achieve greater heights than has ever been achieved before in the history of humankind… in one year we could achieve more than we have these past 100 years.
I hope I don’t come off as hating transgenders or homosexuals… I don’t hate homosexuals or transgenders… I don’t approve of that lifestyle nor will I ever support them… I just think that these are choices people make and not “birth defects” or something people are born with. However, what other people do is their business and their right and if they believe in God it is between that individual and God… if they don’t believe in God, well then I guess they don’t believe there is anything to worry about so…
What I’m trying to say is that I believe in God, and I believe God is pleased with me when I resist carnal desires to show Him what little love I can show Him through obedience, and I want to do whatever it takes to show Him just a particle of the great and infinite love He has for me…
personally and honestly, homosexuality is something I have a tendency for and can be aroused by, but I choose not to involve myself with it… besides that… I really like the pussy… I can’t even begin explain to you how much I love to look at the body of a naked woman… but I can honestly say that if I didn’t like women so much (and not just for their bodies) then I’d totally be a homosexual. I also believe my sexual lust for women is a sin and through the grace and teachings of God, and because of His love and His forgiveness and patience, each and everyday I get closer and closer to having control over my carnal desires.
Well, you are wrong. Homosexuality is something people are born with, by all the evidence. How else do you explain things like the physical differences that have been discovered between homosexuals and heterosexuals ?
Meaningless since transsexuals and homosexuals aren’t at all the same thing.
Oh, PLEASE. Like Christians are well known for their tolerance.
So you don’t think that it’s “unnatural” . . . but you do think that it’s a “sin” that should be fought against. Okaaaay.
Would we wear black and say “RESISTANCE IS FUTILE” in chorus while we did that ?
You sound like someone who hates them but realizes that admitting it would be unpopular here. So you talk about how you disapprove of them without ever actually saying you hate them.
Ah, yes; God the pleasure hating powermonger. It’s amazing how often the people who want to talk up how great God is have a vision of God that is positively repellent.
What a healthy attitude you have towards relationships.
I am Christian. I believe the Word of God to be absolute truth and final authority. What the Word of God says goes and no one has greater authority than God.
Genesis 1:27
“So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them”.
Mark 10:6
“But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female”.
(the Qur’an also testifies to God creating Man and Woman alone… there is no third gender).
Christians don’t accept a third gender because they CANNOT because it goes against God’s Word. God created Male and Female. One. Two. I don’t see a third. Regardless of what Science has proven, regardless of what transgenders believe or feel, there is NO such thing as a man in a woman’s body or a woman in a man’s body, and even IF there is such a thing then tough cookies… live life as God intended a male or female to live. Transgenders may have a biological condition where their minds are “like” or “similar” to or “speckled” like a females mind… but that does NOT make them a female. The biological condition that all the children of God have is testimony to God’s Word and to God’s authority, and there is nothing greater than God’s authority…
…so some men may feel like they are women, or may have a biological condition where they actually believe they are a woman in a man’s body… but no matter what is done they ARE NOT a woman. It is impossible for a woman to be stuck inside a man’s body. Any man who believes he is a woman and lives life as a woman (vice-versa) is living a lie.
If you are a man and want to live life as a woman, that’s your choice, but nothing can physically or mentally or emotionally make you a natural woman. I think women are a beautiful creation… quite frankly because I think women are a more perfect creature than men, and women are one of God’s greatest gift to a men. I guarantee that if I dated each and every transgendered man in this world (and was completely unaware he was born a natural man), not one of them could or would compare to a naturally born woman… not physically, mentally, or emotionally. Sure, I admit that I could have a romance or attraction or relationship or friendship with a transgendered man… but whatever I had with that would NOT in any way, shape, or form, be anything equal to having said relationship to a natural born woman.