Ah, so that’s how you spell it. 
I speak only for my very limited perspective.
The word isn’t a big deal. I know it seems a big deal to a lot of folks on tv, in politics, in magazines, etc. But in the ghetto, we* say that word about 10 times before breakfast.
Our comedians say it, our neighbors say it, our upper middle class family members say it at the family barbecue, our white homies say it, the kids say it (not my kid, but that’s her choice.)
The hip-hop songs say it, it’s said in jest, in song, in the heat of anger and in the throes of passion.
It’s said with an ‘a’ and it’s said with an ‘er’. We don’t say it in front of our elderly because they know a time when the word could accompany dogs and firehoses.
But we do say it all the damn time. When irate customers say it to me on the phones it is impotent, although sometimes good for a few chuckles amongst coworkers.
If kids are still using it to be shocking, that’s kind of pathetic.
*I can’t speak for all of the ghetto, of course. Only from my perspective.
Sorry. I was replying to the topic line and not the actual content of the OP.
I’ve come to feel pretty strongly over the last few years that America learned the wrong lesson from the Civil Rights era. We learned not to say nigger. Don’t act like an overt, hood-wearing, rageaholic hater of everything non-white, and poof, you’re not a racist. This way, people like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and other disgustingly racist people can say “The N-Word? GASP I WOULD NEVER–!!!” and have plausible deniability with the vast majority of white America. It has become a mask that is far too easy to hide behind. Wage, education, and incarceration gaps still persist, but we have a black President and no one can get away with saying “the n-word,” so all’s well in Pleasantville.
I think the youth today is getting wise to this (though maybe it’s subconscious) and are taking the power away from the word. I know a gay, white 17 year old who makes Michael Cera look like the Incredible Hulk and goes around calling people “niggerfag”- yes, with the “er” ending, and yes, in front of black people who could break him in two without breaking a sweat. As far as I know, none of his peers have ever accused him of being racist.
Words have meanings, yes. Words can hurt, yes. But mostly when you put a few of them together and couple them with malintent. We have a long way to go, as a society, towards eradicating the real, insidious racism that effects us before I can get worked up about some kid saying nigger on a gaming channel.
To be sure, if you don’t understand the distinction between nigger and ‘nigger’ you have a serious problem. The use-mention distinction is vital to understanding language and not acting like a complete moron whenever a certain string of letters or sounds occurs. That goes regardless of what color hide you have.
Which is your prerogative. But you seem to think of yourself as someone who’s very aware of racism and bigotry, based on your post in the white privilege thread and in your OP:
But in terms of your actual actions, it doesn’t seem that racism really bothers you all that much. Or at any rate, you value gaming over not associating with racists. Would it be fair to characterize yourself who isn’t racially sensitive then?
It’s possible that your guild-mates are not, in fact, racist. But in that case, why in the world are they using the word “nigger”? Surely there are plenty of other words they could use, with the meaning they intend, without the racist associations?
Seriously. I know it sounds naive to say “just don’t use it” but really, there are tons of other words you could be using. Asshole is my personal favorite. You don’t have to say nigger to get what you want across, you say it because you are either at your core a racist or you are trying to make some point about how words are words and mean nothing. In which case I will believe you are just another white person who’s never been a minority and never knew what it was like to have someone tell you in all seriousness, with bad language or without, that you do not belong here, white people only.
And then people wonder why so many groups are all-white, even when they could potentially benefit non-white people as well.
I’m sure guilds like yours exist, but they are not the norm at the top end, in fact I can’t think of any that would enforce a profanity ban for VoIP or guild chat.
As for my guild, yeah it’s most certainly used mostly as an offensive filler word/ legacy of Tourettes Guy. Here’s an example I pulled from our Algalon strategy thread:
Honestly, I’m more repulsed by how some think this is a litmus test for someone’s worth as a person. I can tell you that the person quoted here is one of the most interesting and generous people I’ve ever met. I’ve known him for five years and have met him three times. He doesn’t have a racist bone in his body. It might be culture shock to some of you, but yes it happens somewhat regularly, and believe it or not even our guildies with a darker hue IRL use such language.
If we had a newcomer to the guild who told me they were offended by the language, I’d try to explain to them that there’s no racist intent behind the words. If that doesn’t persuade them, then it’d probably be time for them to find a new guild. I’ve not yet seen a single person in seven years of playing in some of the best guilds in the country who couldn’t handle it.
Also, no one liked my Haley Barbour joke? I thought I’d get at least one laugh 
One of the episodes I’ve seen of Treme had a white guy, drinking with his black buddies, using the term nigger in what he thinks is a non-racist way.
He gets punched in the face by another black patron.
Most likely, the guilds in question didn’t appeal to people likely to be offended by such speech in the first place. Nor would they be likely to be /ginvited even if they did apply. Top end guilds typically have an application and a forum (or at least a brief description of the guild), in which the guild culture is made clear to applicants. There is also generally a brief interview in which the guild culture and expected language tolerance is evident. If there’s a mismatch, the applicant would either decline to apply, decline the invite after applying, or not be invited in the first place.
Additionally, there’s the potential for suffering in silence… I know a hardcore raider who I used to play with who is gay, and hates the way that the three-letter f-word is bandied about. But he doesn’t speak up in his new guild because in the past, he became the butt of gay jokes and he doesn’t want it to happen again.
I don’t think your experience proves anything. Young white males are the most likely to be hardcore gamers in the first place, and least likely to complain about racist speech (even less likely when they aren’t officers). There’s some serious selection bias going on here. That’s a current you just do not swim against, even if you don’t like hate speech.
I do. I value gaming more than spending time with my family, too. Sometimes I value it more than meals or sleep. It probably doesn’t say much good about me, but there it is.
You can characterize me however you like. If you’re going to classify me as racially insensitive, though, I don’t think you’re going to find more than a few white people will pass your test. There’s nothing fair or unfair about it, those are your standards.
Sometimes it’s actual racism, sometimes it’s ‘just’ tremendously ugly, offensive stupidity. For some reason online gaming is prone to this sort of thing, but it can be corrected. A guy in my alliance is EVE posted about how someone was “being a Jew” and hoarding in-game currency. As a fellow known for tact, politeness and an easy-going nature, I told him to go fuck himself with a chainsaw.
He apologized.
Well of course there’s some selection bias at work here. I’m just saying that in 7 years of playing WoW you’d expect the issue to crop up at least a few times from within the guild and it hasn’t.
As for gays, it’s the same situation. The word faggot is tossed around like nothing. And while we can’t really lay claim to a huge nonwhite demographic, our guild has a considerable amount of gay/bi players who see no issue with it. In fact, one of our recently departed gay members (who left for different reasons) would occasionally rant about how silly it was to be offended by this sort of thing.
I can’t imagine anyone suffering in silence in my guild. I sure hope that’s not the case, but it’s hard for me to envision it.
I played WoW from launch up until about a year ago. Before that, I used to play a lot of EverQuest. And the behavior described by the OP, and defended by mil0, is precisely why I spent the vast majority of that time either playing solo, or with people I knew in real life. A couple times, I tried joining guilds, and usually quit within a week or so, because of the incessant racist and homophobic slurs being thrown around. I’d usually quit quietly, instead of making a big deal about it. Probably, I should have spoken up, but if I’m playing a video game, it’s because I’m trying to get away from stresses like that. The selection bias here is huge, and it extends beyond the context of the game. I know people who just won’t play WoW at all (or online shooters, which are even worse for this sort of behavior) because of this factor. If you’re playing these games at all, you’re starting with a pool of people who, overwhelmingly, either don’t care, or don’t care enough to make a fuss.
As for the whole, “He really doesn’t have a racist bone in his body,” bullshit - frankly, who gives a fuck? You take your honest-to-God, robe-wearing, cross-burning, nigger-hating racist, and drop him into WoW, alongside your average, socially-retarded fourteen year old with keyboard tourettes. How am I, as player in the game, supposed to distinguish between the two? Their in-game behavior is identical. Hell, they’ll probably both claim they aren’t really racist, if you call them on it. So why on Earth would anyone who, within this context, acts exactly like a racist in every perceivable detail, be surprised when people treat them like they’re racist?
In a weird way, this thread is explaining a lot to me about the kinds of people who play these online games. Fascinating.
That seems a lot more worrying than gaming with racists…
I didn’t think that choosing not to associate with racists in your free time was such a high standard, to be honest.
I know, right?
I know, right?
Well, I do and I’d suspect most people care more about intent than mere words, especially in situations like this. I mean, what the hell kind of question is that?
I don’t know if anyone else sees this but I find it hilarious that you’re constantly using epithets of your own, but somehow as I said before, yours are more mature and appropriate than mine for invective purposes.
So why don’t you tell me which words, slurs, etc. are appropriate so I can refine my reproaching techniques. Is retarded among them? There are certainly people who would castigate you in the same manner you are castigating me for using that word. Why are racial epithets off the table, yet those demeaning someone’s intelligence, or what have you on the table?
I’m as analytical as the next person, but it’s amazing to me how many navel-gazers come out of the woodwork during these kinds of topics.
If you say nigger within earshot of me, I don’t have time to figure out the probability of you being a racist. I don’t have to double or triple-think my first impression of you…that’s not how first impressions work. Nor do I have to believe someone else when they come to your defense. Sorry, but when you stink up the room by taking a giant dump in the center of it, it’s not my job to bring out the air freshener and pretend it didn’t happen.
What comes out of a person during rage only reflects that person’s true self. It’s easy to show your best side when you’re self-composed. But when you get drunk or the adrenaline is rushing…that’s when you reveal the nature of the face lurking underneath the mask. If “nigger” is what comes out of your mouth when you get angry, then you’ve basically told me something about yourself. That doesn’t mean you’re the most horrible person in the world; it just means that you’ve got issues in that department.
Obviously you and Apollo have never heard of wiggers, white dudes who are into stuff that blacks are into.
I think yes, but it would be exceptional. Case in point, when I was in college a new white guy entered our gym class. And gravitated immediately to the black guys. I think all of us looked somewhat askance at him initally, but it turned out he was from urban Detroit and that was who he was culturally, much more than us white Calfiornia dudes. This was in the 70’s and the black guys threw the n-word, and the white guy did too, and eventually I think it was taken from him just as it would have been from one of the black guys.
I wish it wouldn’t be used at all, but my feelings about that word are most shaped by Richard Pryor’s observations about travelling in Africa (was it Sunset Strip, or one of his other concert films?)…