Is it possible to be a graduate student and only work 50-60 hours a week

If I ever go to graduate school i’d like it if I could cut my workweek down to 50-60 hours a week. Fifty-sixty hours sounds manageable, but 70-80 (which is what some students say you need) sounds too intense for me.

Is that feasable for a graduate degree? My plan was to sign up (if I ever go, i’m just brainstorming again) for a PhD program and drop out with my MS degree but isntead of finishing my MS in 2 years like most people i’d take 2.5-3 years and take it a bit slower and easier.

Overall does anyone have any idea if this is feasable? My understanding is that gradaute students are expected to do graduate coursework with all the extra studying that requires (20-30 hours a week), independent research (20ish hours a week) and be a TA (20 hours a week) for a total of about 70 hours a week. Would taking 2 classes a semester (instead of 3 like most people take which would save about 10 hours a week) and doing a little less research per semester (but still doing the same amount total, just taking an extra semester to finish it) than the other students be frowned upon, is this kind of idea accepted in graduate schools?

When I saw the thread title, my first thought was that you’d be crazy to try to work 50-60 hours a week in addition to going to graduate school.

Then I read the OP and realized you’re talking about hours of school work and not full-time employment.

My wife got her Masters degree a few years back through the University of Phoenix, which tailors their program to people with a full-time job who want to advance their careers. She attended class one night a week for about 4-5 hours, plus meeting with her study/work group all day on Saturday. In addition, she was studying just about every spare minute she was not at work, so I would say she easily put in 50 hours a week.

However, it sounds like you’re talking about a full-time graduate program, which would be different than my wife’s experience.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

It’s definitely possible, because that’s almost exactly what I did, but it doesn’t necessarily result in the best reputation.

If you’re good at focusing and at going to your office (it really doesn’t work if you try to do the work at home, trust me on that!), working all day and then going home and leaving it behind at the end of a 10 hour day (for 5-6 days a week), it’s certainly do-able. That’s really the optimal way to do it because it leaves you with a day off and a feeling that you can relax when you’re at homoe. I didn’t and I struggled with never feeling like I’d left the work behind while I was at home, which resulted in nearly constant guilt. And do be aware that if everyone else in your department is working 70-80 hours, no matter how much or how well you’re doing, you’re still going to feel guilty if you’re leaving the office after 50-60 hours and they’re still working their butts off.

But, all that being said, it can be done, and at least for me, it allowed me to still feel like a real person with friends, hobbies, etc. while going to school. That helped balance the guilt.

Check your school’s policy on the number of courses you have to take per semester. If you’re funded as a TA, they may require a certain number of credits per semester. Talk to your advisor or if you don’t have one yet, talk to the person in the department who’s in charge of the graduate program.

Also, I’d be wary about recommending starting a Ph.D. if you don’t intend to finish. That is what I ended up doing (leaving the program with a Master’s), but I didn’t intend to and I don’t know how good it would look if it came out later that you’d never really intended to stay for the full Ph.D. It’s also very tough to walk away and then to have to tell everyone you know that you quit. For almost a year after I left, I still had one person who’d call me “Doc.” That just gets awkward after a while.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. And let the Dope world know how you’re doing!

As with all of the graduate-school-question threads I’ve seen around here lately, the answer is “it depends.” It depends on your school, your specific program, your major, etc.

You seem to have the idea that 1 class = 10 hours of work per week, but I took 2 graduate courses this semester and there’s no way the work for them equalled 20 hours a week: the classes themselves took 6 hours a week, and then homework/projects might have taken another 4-6 hours a week. I work full-time, and I would be dead by now if I’d tried to do 40+ hours at my job and 20 hours at school every week. (That is, I personally would be dead by now: I know that there are tons of people who regularly work 60+ hours a week, I just don’t have the “oomph” to be one of them.)

Again, though, this definitely depends on your program/major: one graduate-level English class might equal 6 hours of work per week, but one graduate-level XXX class might be closer to the 10 you’re talking about … and one graduate-level class in XYZ might even require more than that.

I think it depends on what type of program you are talking about (i.e. Biology, Engineering, MBA, etc.)

I did my MBA in 1 year full time. Most weeks were nothing close to 50-60 hours, but a couple were (if I had big projects due). Then again, I have always been very efficient worker. I found that in my MBA progam there wasn’t much need for traditional studying, as most of our grades were projects, presentations, group work, etc. Not a great deal of lecture and tests. So my outside class time was writing papers, doing research, preparing presentations, etc.

I knew people that put very few hours in and finishied with a 4.0, cause they were very smart and efficient. Others got a 4.0 by putting in 60-70 hours per week. But there were also people putting in those hours and not finishing the program, so it all depends on who you are and how you work.

Agreed. You’ll definitely face some discrimination over this, from other grad students and from professors. (Bitter? Me?)

What field are you thinking of going to graduate school in? Are there research assistantships or fellowships available as well as teaching assistantships?

Oh, one more thing.

From what I saw and have heard, most people who are assigned (being paid/getting a grant) for 20 hours of TA work do far far less than that.

There will always be that hard ass prof you TA for that makes you put in a ton of hours, but most don’t work you that hard.

*disclaimer - my knowledge is mostly related to MBA programs

I would offer another ‘it depends.’

What I learnt in grad school is that the *worst *thing you can do is compare your work habits and schedules to other people (the second worst is to tell other people!)

I had a professor at the University of Minnesota, my advisor, who told me that unless I worked for 18 hours a day, 6 days a week, I did not have the drive and discipline to earn a PhD. I found out from one of his grad school peers that my advisor spent about 75% of his time in grad school outside playing touch-football…anyway, I tried actually to maintain that schedule for about 3 weeks, and when another professor asked me why I looked so tired and upset, I explained my work schedule.

She thought for a minute, and told me, if I maintained that pace, I would finish the quarter’s worth of work in about a month, and then what? Well, I had asked my advisor that, and he had told me, to go to the library, start at one end of a bookshelf, and read my way through the stacks.

Another professor at Minnesota once challenged me in front of the class to ask how much time I spent on her class (one out of 3) outside of the class. I said, About two hours a day – which does seem like quite a lot of time. But she came back with, ‘What?! You spend only 10 hours a week on my class?!’

A completely different grad school professor told me to treat grad school like a 9-5 job (or whatever you want your 8 hours to be) and at the end of the work day, that would be the end of the work day. Your unfinished work will always be there the next day waiting for you, so don’t sweat it. That was his method, and it worked for him.

My first year at UVa (which was the year after I left Minnesota), I took 4 courses a term, and was working and studying almost constantly – I would feel guilty if I took an evening off to go shopping, or just to see a movie! The second year, I had 3 courses each term, TA’d 3 sections each term, and was writing my MA thesis – but I had learnt to manage my time efficiently, and didn’t have time management problems, and could take time off.

As it happens, I learnt that I could work very efficiently and carry a huge load, and get stuff done that might take a colleague much longer, if at all. My mistake was when I mentioned to anyone how much I was studying, or how far along I was in my thesis. In my dept, competition was cutthroat, and there were people who played off this sort of thing, and would seize on this info to make me feel panicked and anxious that I wasn’t ‘doing enough’ and slipping behind. Fortunately I TA’d for a really level-headed professor, who told me, ‘Just do your own work, at your own pace, and don’t worry about those other people.’

As for one of my UVa colleagues, who enjoyed that sort of baiting – she was making me feel about an inch high when comparing how far along either of us were on dissertations, telling me that she already had in a completed draft of the entire thing, and that her committee was very pleased with her, and how ‘terrible’ it was that I was only 100 pages into mine, &c – when her advisor, who hadn’t heard any of this conversation, walked up to us, and asked, cheerfully of her, ‘Hey, Mxxxx! When in the hell are you going to get me chapter one of your dissertation?! It’s been 6 months since you promised; how long does it take to write 20 pages?’

:smiley:

It can be done, depending on your subject and the specific program itself. I’m currently in a Ph.D. program, working on my thesis. For the first two years (the pre-master’s equivalent), I really don’t think I worked much longer than 50-60 hours a week. I went to classes and worked on my laboratory rotations from about 9-6 or so, with some evening studying (not really THAT much) and occasional weekend work. Now that I’m on my thesis work, I mostly work a normal 40-50 hour week, with occasional heavy weeks. If you want to get things done that way, it’s kind of important to be efficient, though (work on papers between classes, if you have any kind of laboratory work, study during wait times, stay well- rested, don’t skip lectures). However, I’m in a biological science, and my TAing requirement was small. I can’t speak for Humanities.

As for quitting a PhD program at master’s level: <steps on soapbox> I wouldn’t recommend it, especially if it’s clear to the program that you are doing so. Universities invest a lot of money in PhD students with the expectation that they’ll be providing valuable research for some professor after they finish classes. When people in my program have had problems, they do everything they can to keep them on board as far as changing requirements, switching labs, and trying to improve work environments, and I think they’d be kind of upset with someone who wasn’t willing to invest the time to try to make it work. Remember, if you want to stay in the field (otherwise, why get the master’s?), you’re going to need recommendations from these people. Of course, I can only speak for what the attitude in my department seems to be. YMMV.<steps off soapbox>

Good Luck- I hope it works out for you.

This would be in a chemistry field, probably a biological or organic chemistry field.

Sooooooooo how do I find the right schools for me? I can only find graduate schools rated on prestige, none rated on flexibility of the program.

The reason i’d do a PhD and drop out (I’ve read 1/3 of chemistry doctorate students intend to drop out after the MS degree is awarded) and not a MS program is in case I change my mind and want to do a full doctorate I don’t have to start from scratch. I know 2 people who did/are doing PhD’s in chemistry and it took one of them 8 years total and will take the other 7-8 years total because nothing from their MS degree transferred so they had to do 2-3 years of the same coursework at a different school. At least this way I wouldn’t have to start from scratch if I find that I really like the idea of a doctorate like I would if I just did a MS program.

It depends on the program. A friend of mine just finished her undergrad in biophysics at Johns Hopkins, where the chemistry grad students (at least, the ones she worked with) spend 70+ hours just in the lab every week and hate their program, their professors, and life. She’s starting in UW Madison’s chemistry graduate program this fall, and when she visited, the students there claimed to work something like 40-50 hours per week. We’ll see if that’s true.

The best way to find out things like that is probably to talk to some grad students already in the program there. And you’re 100% right to want to know that before you commit to a grad school. The fit between you and the culture of the department is very important.

Smooth. I guess some kind of graduate student message board would help me out immensely on this so I can network and meet people to find a program that is right for me.

I don’t want to end up in one of the programs where 70% drop out and have to work 80 hours a week before they throw in the towel. Not only would the schooling be hell (5 years of your life you regret) but you’d have nothing to show for it since you’d probably drop out.

40-50 hours a week, if possible, sounds amazing. Hell my upcoming undergraduate fall semester is going to be 40-50 hours a week.

I think I can answer.

I did my PhD in six years. The first three I worked 80-100 hours a week. Well, let me say, I was AT work 80-100 hours a week. The dirty little secret of the graduate student bragging about how many hours they work is that they are spreading 20 hours of work over 100 hours. It’s not really their fault because your *supposed * to work 100 hours a week (or else you don’t love science…).

Then I learned that if you are at work 100 hours a week, then you are doing something wrong. Like someone said above, you won’t have the best reputation. I got a reputation as being lazy. Of course, the people who gave me that reputation are still in graduate school trying to get enough data to graduate within the next two years, and I’ve been out for about 8 months now.

So, you’ll have to find an understanding boss who can see that you are getting data, and doesn’t care if you aren’t there at midnight. They are rare. I didn’t have one, which necessitated me screaming (I’m normally a guy with NO temper) and visiting the ombudsman monthly.

In short, it can be done, but it ain’t easy. Not because it’s hard to do the work, but because it’s hard to deal with the personality disorders that are commonplace in academic science.