Do you still use the expression, “Master of the house”? How is “Master of the house” NOT classist (let alone sexist) in a modern household?
I apologize.
I propose “The Lord’s (or Laird’s) Chambers”
Lloyd’s room.
Touche, my friend.
Some like two masters in a house, can the same be said of primaries or mains?
Of course: for example, birds have multiple primary feathers, and there can be multiple main roads or main issues.
There’s nothing about the word “primary” or “main” that necessarily implies uniqueness.
While this thread has collected many posts since I had last had the opportunity of checking in, the back and forth is more tedious repetition than new points … this comment however deserves note.
My respect likely means little to many but for the little it is worth the least of it goes to those who use “ignorant” in the way you describe, and who fail to recognize not only what they do not know, but have such hubris as to not appreciate the vastness of what they are too ignorant to not even know they don’t know.
That said continue the regularly scheduled banging of heads against the wall … as for me, in the words of @Johnny_Bravo: “oh my, is that John? Do pardon me …”
Fundamentally, it’s this idea that we have to run around scared that someone might find something we say offensive, regardless of the actual meaning of the word, or the intent behind it, problematic.
I mean, if I use some term, whatever it may be, and someone who is ignorant of it decides to take umbrage about it, how is that my problem? I didn’t use a word incorrectly and I didn’t say anything with any intent of making anyone mad.
I’m not necessarily saying we should just ignore the fact that someone may take incorrect offense at it (and yes, it’s incorrect in the case of “master” bedroom and racism), but that we shouldn’t just run scared about the idea that offending someone is that horrible that we have to kowtow to people who are taking offense to phantoms, just because people are afraid to say “No, you’re wrong, it’s not racist.” and go on about their business.
There’s no historical connection between the phrase “master bedroom” and slavery. But there is a connection between the name and a hierarchical household structure that i don’t especially care to support. And the word “master”, used to describe those hierarchical relationships, leaves a bad taste in some mouths. That’s not ignorance, it’s just an unpleasant association.
Who’s advocating that?
This is my point. It is idiotic to assume that you are in the wrong in any way.
If the person then tells you why they are offended and you tell them what the context, intent and usage of that word is, you are both now in exactly the same situation regarding knowledge.
Both should say to themselves “ah, I didn’t realise that, now I do” and both have options open to them regarding how they react both now and in the future.
What is wrong is to automatically assume that the person using the word is in some way more obligated to make a change. That simply isn’t so.
I think this is a defensible position, with its qualifiers, the first time such an issue comes up. But let me ask you this: imagine the following conversation between me and a black co-worker.
Me: “The new expenses policy seems rather niggardly to me.”
Co-worker: “Could you please not use that word, it is racist.”
Me: “No it isn’t, it has no connection with the n-word and that certainly wasn’t my intention.”
Co-worker: “Even so, it sounds so similar that in my experience it is often used by people who claim not to be racist, but want to normalise racist-sounding terms with plausible deniability, which is not a good look.”
Both parties have now learned something and are in “the same situation regarding knowledge”, as you put it (to the extent that 2 people with different experiences ever can be). My question to you @Novelty_Bobble is this: would you say I would be justified in then continuing to use that word in such conversations? If I did so, should my co-worker simply not react, now that they ‘know’ I did not mean any offence by it?
This is not intended as any kind of ‘gotcha’, it is a genuine question to try to understand how you might actually act in real life.
It is a perfectly fair question and certainly one that must have come up over time, though as it isn’t a word in common use for me and I’m unlikely to be in the position of pulling someone up over its usage, I couldn’t really say.
In short, I don’t know how I would react. I think it is impossible to say what my likely response is without knowing the full background to that interaction.
I can imagine additional context that would mean either party could be left with the reasonable expectation to modify their reaction.
And I’ve never presented this as behaviour that “should” be taken. Just that both sides have the option to choose how to react and it is wrong to automatically assume that the alleged offender is always in the wrong and is the only one obligated to modify their reaction in future.
If that sounds like a cop-out, that is because it is and sometimes “I don’t know” is the only honest answer.
However, would you agree that in the case you give (and in other such situations) the option is there, once each party is fully informed, for each to decide on how they react in future?
Yes (with the qualifier, discussed previously in the thread, that while most people can’t usually control their visceral reaction to something, they can usually control how they deal with that initial reaction). But as a practical matter, if I were to indeed use the word “niggardly” again, in front of that same co-worker, I would expect their reaction to be along the lines of “well, this guy is being a dick, possibly with racist intentions, or at best they are thoughtless and self-absorbed” - even if they did not say so out loud.
And actually, that ties in nicely with a wider point that I’ve seen other posters making with regard to your recent comments on topics like this - basically, if you want to avoid any doubt about whether you are racist, it’s best to avoid such words, because even if you are not in fact racist, these words may be used by racists who want to maintain a veneer of plausible deniability. Not only that, usage of these words by non-racists can provide ‘cover’ for racists. You are of course perfectly free to continue using such words, but then others may choose to make incorrect assumptions about you, and not be entirely unjustified in doing so.
Okay, so you are a real estate agent, and you are showing off some house plans to some prospective buyers. You say, “This is the master bedroom.”, and they give you an uncomfortable look at you using the term. Do you explain to them how ignorant they are to be made uncomfortable by the term, or do you keep your job?
Thank you for a clear answer, we are on the same page.
That may be, and depending on the wider context of the situation they might be right and they might be wrong in doing so.
I’m not in the slightest bit interested in disucssing second-hand what other posters may read into, or how they may interpret other comments I’ve made.
The only thing that ever matters is what I’ve actually written. The actual words on the page. That’s where we start from.
If you have a question or concern on anything I’ve said then please quote it and I’ll respond accordingly within the relevant thread.
I’m happy to clarify, qualify, contextualise, explain and revise as much as necessary but I’ll do it when presented with the words I’ve actually used, not someone else’s interpretation of them.
In my view, the third sentence here contradicts the first. I agree with the third sentence, that we start from there. But I don’t agree with the first sentence. What you actually write is not the only thing that matters. In multiple threads, multiple posters have suggested that if you wish others to believe your claim (and I do happen to believe it, for the record) that you do not intend to be racist, you should consider modifying how you choose to communicate, according to the feedback that has been given.
Or, more succinctly: it is not enough to simply claim we are not racist, instead we should aim to be “anti-racist”. Avoiding the use of words such as “niggardly” (just an example; I am not claiming you use/used that particular word) is one small way to do that, in that it makes it clearer that those trying to get away with using it in a racist way are not to be tolerated.
Nor am I, really, so I will make this my last post on this hijack, nor will I pursue it in other threads. I am just offering another perspective because I mostly like and respect you as a poster. I believe you have claimed elsewhere that you don’t care what anyone on this board thinks of you (and you may well choose to ignore my suggestion), but in that case, why post at all?
Out of curiosity, does that apply in reverse?
Say you’re a real estate agent who (a) says “this is the main bedroom” and (b) gets an uncomfortable look from a potential buyer who’s maybe already used the phrase “master bedroom”; what do you do?
You make a joke about how your wife or children don’t let you call it that.