Is it really necessary to portray the election of the opposing candidate as the end of humanity?

[greenslime1951]

@adaher

While we’re on the subject of cites, I nominate this statement as the most said thing that is never supported by cites, yet accepted as fact even though it’s probably very wrong:

Corporations control the government.

You do understand, don’t you, that for citepanzees, the requirement to cite only applies to the other guy’s assertions?

[greenslime1951]

@GIGObuster

Nope, specially when one side brings cites to support what they say. What me and many others notice is just a clear lack of support for what you claim.

I could dredge up an internet cite to support literally any claim, such as that the moon was really made of Cool Whip. I note that the folks who selectively data-mine for their cites do just that–they cherry-pick stuff that supports their position.

But why would I bother? The chimps would screech just as loud after the cite as before.

[Oakminster]

@greenslime1951

I could dredge up an internet cite to support literally any claim, such as that the moon was really made of Cool Whip.

If you want to be taken seriously here, you need to be able to provide cites to credible sources. If a politician said something, then there’s probably a quote available in a story on CNN, or the New York Times, or other legitimate news source. If it’s a legal matter, cite the statute or court opinion, etc. You can’t produce a credible source to support the proposition that the moon is made of Cool Whip. You should be able to produce a cite that Obama said X, or Romney said Y.

[gamerunknown]

@greenslime1951

That taxes should be collected solely to fund the activities of government, and that said activities should have as their purpose the common good of the people.

Then reducing taxable income would lead to less government ability to provide for the common good of the people. It’s also not an ideologically free assertion: there are those that believe in zero taxation (both left and right anarchists), or taxation with a widely divergent definition of the common good.

[adaher]

@Oakminster

If you want to be taken seriously here, you need to be able to provide cites to credible sources. If a politician said something, then there’s probably a quote available in a story on CNN, or the New York Times, or other legitimate news source. If it’s a legal matter, cite the statute or court opinion, etc. You can’t produce a credible source to support the proposition that the moon is made of Cool Whip. You should be able to produce a cite that Obama said X, or Romney said Y.

The issue in question was whether Obama had apologized for America. We all agree on what he said, a cite wouldn’t contribute anything to that. We disagreed on the interpretation of those remarks.

[Oakminster]

@adaher

The issue in question was whether Obama had apologized for America. We all agree on what he said, a cite wouldn’t contribute anything to that. We disagreed on the interpretation of those remarks.

My comments were intended for a more general application.

[adaher]

I agree in general, but I also understand greenslime’s frustration.

[ElvisL1ves]

@adaher

The issue in question was whether Obama had apologized for America. We all agree on what he said, a cite wouldn’t contribute anything to that. We disagreed on the interpretation of those remarks.

A cite might convince people you’re not making this shit up. That would be worth something.

A *refusal *to cite *also *has power to convince, you know.

So, where’s the explanation of how an assurance of responsible action is an “apology”? And where’s the explanation of how the Bush administration does not need apologizing for?

[not_what_you_d_expect]

@greenslime1951

I heartily disagree. Without civility, any debate is worse than pointless. If you’re going to have a reasoned discussion, there have to be some ground rules, such as that neither side will call the other an evil, insane asshole.

Floppy eared one is okay though, right?

When you fail to provide cites to back up your claims, I feel free to discount everything you say.

Do you not know how to link?

[adaher]

You are of course free to discount anything anyone says, whether they provide a cite or not, just as you are free to believe anything anyone says, whether or not they provide a cite. And the rest of us are free to make our own judgements as well.

[InterestedObserver]

@greenslime1951

I’d like to gently suggest that you at least consider a couple of challenges to things you obviously believe are absolute truth:

1. That tax cuts for the rich and “giant” (as opposed to merely pretty honkin’ big) corporations are necessarily, automatically, a bad thing.

2. That the economic woes of the last few years were directly, proximally, and primarily caused by the economic policies of the GWB administration.

Now, you (and most others reading this) are probably snorting, “Of course they are! Of course they were!” However, these are, in fact, not easily answered questions–unless you resort to ideology to answer them, or, more precisely, to avoid answering them.

(I am wondering, by the way, why GWB takes a full hit for the economy in 2008, and well beyond according to the Democrats, but Obama is not the least bit to blame for the current economic non-recovery. But I digress.)

And yes, we should have had universal health care long ago, and yes, the Republicans are probably to “blame” for that. But they had their reasons for opposing it–and it’s too much of a leap from disagreeing with those reasons (as I do, and I’m sure you do) to saying that the Republicans are evil, selfish assholes.

The point I’m trying to get across is that we should think less viscerally and more cerebrally about who we choose for our leaders and what we want our (ostensible) representatives to do for us.

I am not ASSUMING or BELIEVING anything, Greenslime. I am making an informed, educated statement based on FACTS and HISTORY.

Give me a fucking BREAK…your ideology has FAILED miserably, provably, and repeatably. Give it UP already. All the pseudo-babble in the world won’t salvage that record.
Look, we recently entered the WORST economic downturn/crisis since the Great Depression, during and immediately on the heels of 8 YEARS of near to TOTAL REPUBLICAN control ( and don’t give me that shit about the Democrats in control of Congress for the last few years caused it…Bush broke RECORDS with his vetos of everything they proposed…you guys wanted COMPLETE control…you got it, baby…it’s alll on YOU!)
In FACT, the Great Depression (which we still measure our bad times by) came during and on the heels of 12 years of REPUBLICAN control (characterized by many of the EXACT same policies as the GOP of today; union-busting, slashing government spending, tax cuts for the rich, deregulation, supply-side economics and laissaz-faire governing.)

Like then, A DEMOCRAT had to come in (elected and RE-elected by record-setting popular votes) and institute STIMULUS and landmark SOCIAL programs and RE-regulate the banks and other interstate commerce.
Those who do not LEARN from history are doomed to REPEAT it. Dumbass.
I’m a 20 year Independent/Unaffiliated voter…I do not reach these conclusions by partisan bias but by the facts as I have examined them lo these many years.

[ElvisL1ves]

@adaher

You are of course free to discount anything anyone says, whether they provide a cite or not, just as you are free to believe anything anyone says, whether or not they provide a cite. And the rest of us are free to make our own judgements as well.

So lack of fact is just as credible to you as fact? On what basis do you exercise your beliefs or your discounting of statements, then?

If you’re telling us that a grounding in reality simply doesn’t really matter, then what the fuck does? Wow.

[greenslime1951]

@not_what_you_d_expect

Floppy eared one is okay though, right?

When you fail to provide cites to back up your claims, I feel free to discount everything you say.

Do you not know how to link?

Yeah, it’s OK.

I feel free to discount anything and everything you say even if it’s “backed up” by a thousand “cites.”

Don’t be a third grader and say that because someone doesn’t do something you demand they do, they don’t know how to do it.

[greenslime1951]

@adaher

The issue in question was whether Obama had apologized for America. We all agree on what he said, a cite wouldn’t contribute anything to that. We disagreed on the interpretation of those remarks.

Of course. That’s why the citepanzees’ screeching is so phony. They remember those series of speeches just well as we do. As you say, it’s a matter of interpretation–and the citepanzees are well aware of that, and certainly they wouldn’t change their position if I (or you, or anybody) wasted our time and posted a hundred “cites”–they’d just screech and throw more feces.

[greenslime1951]

@adaher

You are of course free to discount anything anyone says, whether they provide a cite or not, just as you are free to believe anything anyone says, whether or not they provide a cite. And the rest of us are free to make our own judgements as well.

Unless you aren’t a liberal, apparently.

The utter hypocrisy of screeching for a CITE as a means of expressing disagreement but not providing CITES for everything YOU say is lost on these people.

I think I’ve spent too much time with the chimpanzees. The screeching and chaos are kind of interesting but also wearying after a while.

Ironically, the tone of the rhetoric/screeching/throwing feces on this thread has provided me with a definitive answer to what was intended to be a rhetorical question: Yes, it is necessary. We apparently can’t converse civilly.

Moderator: Suggest closing this thread as the original topic has disappeared into the muck.

[greenslime1951]

@InterestedObserver

Give me a fucking BREAK…your ideology has FAILED miserably, provably, and repeatably. Give it UP already. All the pseudo-babble in the world won’t salvage that record.
Those who do not LEARN from history are doomed to REPEAT it. Dumbass.
I’m a 20 year Independent/Unaffiliated voter…I do not reach these conclusions by partisan bias but by the facts as I have examined them lo these many years.

I don’t have an ideology–dumbass You make the silly assumption that I’m a Republican. I’m not. Dumbass.

I’ll give you a fucking break anytime you want it. Dumbass:D How about giving me one? Not that I expect it from you–that would be civil. Dumbass. :eek:

[twickster]

@greenslime1951

I don’t have an ideology–dumbass You make the silly assumption that I’m a Republican. I’m not. Dumbass.

I’ll give you a fucking break anytime you want it. Dumbass:D How about giving me one? Not that I expect it from you–that would be civil. Dumbass. :eek:

I am giving you a warning for personal insults. Given that this is your second infraction during your brief tenure, the staff will be discussing your posting privileges.

twickster, Elections moderator

[twickster]

@InterestedObserver

Those who do not LEARN from history are doomed to REPEAT it. Dumbass.

I’m giving you a warning for personal insults. Adding a smiley doesn’t get you off the hook on this – and you’ve definitely been here long enough to know better.

twickster, Elections moderator

[tomndebb]

@greenslime1951

. . . the citepanzees’ screeching . . .
. . . the citepanzees . . . they’d just screech and throw more feces.

@greenslime1951

I think I’ve spent too much time with the chimpanzees. The screeching and chaos are kind of interesting but also wearying after a while.

I am not going to pile another Warning on top of the one you just received, but this is a pretty clear bit of evidence that you are at least as responsible as your opponents for the following:

@greenslime1951

. . . the original topic has disappeared into the muck.

[ /Moderating ]

[Bosstone]

@greenslime1951

Unless you aren’t a liberal, apparently.

The utter hypocrisy of screeching for a CITE as a means of expressing disagreement but not providing CITES for everything YOU say is lost on these people.

You do realize you are just as allowed to ask for a cite as they are, right? Don’t act like you’re being forced to fight with a hand tied behind your back.