The background:
Today, we had our shop Holiday parties, where everyone brought in a little sumthin’ sumthin’ for everyone to get a good meal and hang out. Last night, I made “Festivus Chili” [sub]I have never seen Seinfeld, nor do I care to, I just liked the name of it. . ." which requires ‘great feats of strength’ to eat. Well, okay, I toned down the spicyness, but it came out good nonetheless.
Whilst bullshittin’ with some coworkers, we came across the idea of a Booster Club fundraiser through a chili cookoff. My gears began to spin, and I thought, “Hell, if this were Full Strength “Festivus Chili”, it would peel paint!” I would print out some D.O.T. shipping placards, type up an MSDS for the stuff just for show and comic effect, but it’d be funnier than hell.
The question:
. . . which got me to thinking further. Can I safely put a small piece of dry ice into chili, and let it “smoke and smolder” a little bit? You know, like “Mad Scientists” do with flasks of colored water to give it that eerie Halloween effect?
So, what say you, O mighty Teeming Millions?
Tripler
Miracle stuff it is: peels paint, fixes potholes, chemically melts and bonds metal, yet leaves the diner with a light spicy feeling.
* Don’t touch the dry ice with bare hands.
* Don’t let it come in direct contact with food.
* Warn the recipient of its use by writing "Contains Dry Ice" on the outside of the box."
I’m not entirely sure how much of that, if any or if all, is specific to mailing stuff that contains dry ice (included for the purpose, I would assume, of keeping stuff cold without also keeping the package sopping wet).
Asphyxiation. Releasing any gas in a confined or unventilated area can lower the concentration of oxygen to a level that is immediately dangerous to life or health (see the first link under Further Info below) . Be very careful entering a truck or room where solid or gaseous CO2 is stored. Likewise, some businesses and laboratories store Dry Ice in large top-loading ice chests; be very careful sticking your head down to retrieve a block from the bottom.
Concentrations greater than 10% in air. Remember those chemical reactions we saw above? These are chemical equilibria, which means that the relative amounts of products and reactants depend on their concentrations. Large changes in carbon dioxide or bicarbonate concentration can lead to kidney damage, coma or even death! For a great discussion of this in detail see this article in the Merck Manual.
Frostbite. Solid carbon dioxide (Dry Ice) is always -78 oC (-109 0F) at regular atmospheric pressure regardless of the air temperature. Handling this material for more than a second or two without proper gloves can cause serious blisters or worse. Carbon dioxide gas released from a compressed gas cylinder (such as a fire extinguisher) poses a similar danger. Avoid putting any bodily part directly in the path of discharge and be careful when touching any metal parts that the gas flows through.
Pressure Explosion. Carbon dioxide has a vapor pressure of 830 psi at 20 °C. In other words, if one places solid carbon dioxide in a closed container at room temperature, the carbon dioxide will eventually convert to liquid and the pressure above that liquid will be 830 psi (approximately 56 times normal atmospheric pressure). The pressure will always be 830 psi as long as some liquid carbon dioxide is present in the closed container, and at higher temperatures the pressure will be even greater.
While such pressures are no problem for pressure-tested gas cylinders or fire extinguishers, ordinary containers (soda bottles, paint thinner cans, Thermos containers etc.) can not handle such pressures and will explode and create shrapnel if solid carbon dioxide is sealed inside them. Putting solid carbon dioxide into any sort of closed container (glass, plastic, metal etc.) is exceedingly dangerous and is likely to result in severe personal injury or death.
Carcinogenicity - NTP: NO
Carcinogenicity - IARC: NO
Carcinogenicity - OSHA: NO
Waste Disposal Method: ALLOW CARBON DIOXIDE TO RELEASE,SUBLIME OR
DISSIPATE IN THE OPEN AIR.AVOID RELEASING IN COURTYARDS OR INDOORS OR ANY
AREAS WHERE HEAVY CARBON DIOXIDE VAPORS CAN ACCUMULATE.
Looks OK in small amounts, well ventilated, and for og’s sake don’t put a tight lid on it.
I would have thought that the main problem with putting dry ice into chilli, aside from any possible safety issues, would be that it would make the dish go cold quite quickly, what with it being -78DegC.
We use dry ice in our meat cooler when we go on an extended camping trip. Keeps the meat frozen solid for about five days in an ordinary cooler. We’re all still alive. Lots of places use dry ice in mailing perishible (perishable?) foods.
I use dry ice in a small bowl that floats inside a larger bowl of punch. That way, I don’t have to worry about people drinking the dry ice accidentally, but it makes a cool fog effect. You might stick a pyrex test tube of dry ice in the center of the chili pot, which would give it a nice “swamp gas” effect. Uh…but try it out first. I’m not sure if the hot/cold differential might be enough to shatter the glass. That would be bad.
Assuming I did cook chili, I’d be serving it from a crock pot, and would “sink” a small piece to the bottom corner, just to be sure I don’t serve it to anyone. It would be an unsealed lid, allowing for any gas to escape either when I open the lid or through the small crack. Also, the thing would be turned on “Keep Chili Warm”, so I wouldn’t be too worried about making my chili cold.
But dry ice is solidified CO2, which converts to gas. We use dissolved carbon dioxide in our soda and beer. There wouldn’t be any direct danger in poisoning, would there?
Something smells a science experiment coming on. . .
Tripler
I want people to burp when they eat my chili, but not because it’s carbonated.
I think I’d mostly be worried about the taste. If you serve from the other corner of the crockpot, I don’t think it would be too cold, but once you got it down to where you were actually serving some of the chili that the dry ice had bubbled through, it might taste weird.
I was working a Madrigal dinner where we used dry ice to create a huge barrel of “hot” wassail. Naturally, when I wasn’t actually working, I played around a bit. I dropped a rather small chunk of it into a glass of water I had. I watched, swirled it around a bit, and that was that. After a while, when it had completely sublimated, I was thirsty so I started drinking the water. It tasted different, and not really in a good way. I’m still here though, so it (probably) won’t kill you.
My best friend makes a Halloween punch with sherbert, 7up and dry ice for effect. They take the dry ice OUT before serving it, but while it sits on the table before anyone drinks it, it looks really cool. I didn’t taste a thing but limey sherbert goodness…
Well the stuff is non-carcinogenic, so it’s no surprise that everyone is still alive.
I think the main concerns are you don’t want people to get chunks in their chili and swallow them. I do think pushing it down into the hot chili might cause some pretty “explosive” bubbling, though, depending on how hot (temperature) the chili is. I say carry out a small experiment, using yourself as guinea pig, and see how it tastes and looks. Then you can decide whether it’s worth it.
And please, please tell us all about it. Some of us may want to use this effect for our own nefarious purposes.
Now that I look back at this, I’m amazed that something bad didn’t happen to me because of this. When I was a young teenager, my Mom worked as a vaccinations coordinator for the county we lived in. Whenever they got rush shipments from somewhere, they came packed in dry ice, which she would bring home for me to play with. If this happened on a Friday, I’d often have a friend over for the night, and we’d stay up and mess with it. Beyond the usual bottle bombs and stuff, we decided to see what various beverages tasted like when carbonated. It never occurred to us that we were drinking the packing material for medical supplies, but I seem to be alright today. We tried all kinds of things, but we never got the kind of carbonation that we expected, like sodas have. It just imparted a very slight carbonation and a terrible taste.
Even if you put one chunk in the pot in the corner, as it melts, there’s no guarantee that it will stay in place or in one chunk. Why not just have the dry ice next to the chili?
This site says it’s ok to put FOOD GRADE dry ice into beverages (as long as it’s not eaten, of course…), so I’d guess it would be ok to put into food as well. I second trying it at home first.
But you’re missing the point: I want my chili to bubble and smoke [sub]without using actual corrosive chemicals [/sub] or at least give the appearance of smoking.
I think Ghanima is right. I may need to partake of some testing on my part. I have plenty of poker buddies that might be up for the task as well . . .
Tripler
Plus, I have some ‘down time’ coming up shortly–the holidays and all.
When my chemistry teacher retired, we had a big party that included punch with dry ice in it–it tasted fine, and I assume it was perfectly safe as long as no one got dry ice in their mouth. I was seving, so I made sure it all stayed in the big punch bowl. (One of my classmates said, “Boy, I’m glad you’re in charge of serving the punch and not someone who doesn’t know anything about dry ice.”)
This is not something that is going to turn your entire batch of chili into a vat of acid (carbonic acid - H[sub]2[/sub]CO[sub]3[/sub] - is a weak acid, and CO[sub]2[/sub] is an acid anhydride, meaning it combines with water to form an acid, but you can get a lot more potent than carbonic acid), but if you have someone eat a bunch of the stuff, that person may wake up with an upset stomach. Of course, given the nature of chili, that’s bound to happen anyway:D
I’d go more into detail about the chemistry involved, but I just had my final this morning and my brain is still a little woozy.
I remember my Uncle, the pharmacist/Mad Scientist putting dry ice in pancake batter with green food coloring, once. It blurbled and glorped and blew ‘smoke’ rings. I’m pretty sure we ate the pancakes from the batter, later.
But I think it’s going to quickly make your chili an unpalatable temperature.
Consider a small display crock with bubbling, smoking chili, for effect, and serving from an unadulterated batch? Gets around that Carbolic acid angle.
This was a favourite at parties when I was at university (I studied chemistry). A few lumps would be dropped into punch, or even, heck into your beer can. Looked cool, tasted cool, and by golly it made you cool. Erm, or something.
The only downside was that if you overdid it your beer would freeze solid, and/or you’d get very cold hands from holding the can.
There’s not a problem with putting lumps of dry ice in your mouth. I’ve done it literally dozens of times. You can get a really cool “dragon” effect, snorting great plumes of dense vapour out of your nostrils - simply pop a small lump in your mouth, and keep it moving! - roll it from cheek to cheek and over your tongue, with your mouth shut. Meanwhile, exhale through your nostrils.
My lab supervisor showed me this trick - initially I was a bit :eek: but he assured me it was quite safe, and so it proved.
Nope, not going to happen. What do you think soda is? You simply aren’t going to end up with strong enough acid to make any difference to the very low pH already in your stomach.
Probably the worst that’ll happen is the carbonic acid could make your food taste nasty. However, I feel compelled to post this anecdote since it applies here.
Back in college, my (now-)husband and I were at a party, at which an alcoholic punch had dry ice pieces floating in it for that cool smoky effect. I had worked with dry ice in a lab (though I didn’t supply this part) and knew from experience various things about dry ice, like how sometimes, under the right conditions, dry ice submerged in a water-based liquid (juice, punch, etc.) can form a water-ice crust around a small piece of dry ice, keeping it from turning into a gas.
My husband really didn’t have much to drink, and soon complained of feeling really ill and bloated. He threw up and I took him back to his apartment, where he continued throwing up, mostly just dry heaves or stomach “fluids.” We suspected from his symptoms of feeling very bloated in the stomach and dry-heaving for no apparent reason that he swallowed a small piece of this ice-covered dry ice, which slipped down into his stomach, hit the stomach acids, and turned into a decent-sized volume of gas and acid.
Now this next part isn’t definitely related, but it is quite possible according to my husband’s doctor. A few years later, out of college and in our first apartment together, my husband was under a ton of stress, eating poorly, and drinking a larger than usual amount. He ended up with a bleeding ulcer - low body temperature and tarry stools - and went to the ER. IIRC they did an endoscopy and a decent-sized scar was noted by the ulcer. The doctor asked him about it, if he’d had symptoms like this before, and he hadn’t, but then my husband remembered the dry ice incident and asked if that might have done it. The doctor thought it could be the case, that the piece of dry ice had burned him there before turning into gas.
I would try it out ahead of time to see if the taste is affected. Health issues aren’t a concern (biochem major here. I’ve done the “dragon breath” thing with dry ice too).
Also, unless you put a huge chunk into your chili, the temperature effect shouldn’t be that much if you keep it heated. Your biggest problem may be that you don’t get the effect you are looking for. Hot chili plus dry ice = no more dry ice in a pretty short time. If you are just looking for a dramatic “unveiling” effect, you should be fine.
