You can talk to your neighbours and read Consumer Reports. But that may not help you understand (or even finish reading) Internet legalese, or even find what you want on Amazon. Is this Atlantic article correct in saying being informed was never possible, but more so these days? Does it shy away from discussing the problems inherent in being the market while producing “essentials” for it too?
An edited excerpt:
“Many simple [Amazon] queries yield results that appear to be the exact same product over and over again—sometimes with the exact same photos—but all with different names, sellers, prices, ratings, and customer reviews. If you squint, you can distinguish between some of the products, which feels like playing a decidedly less whimsical version of “spot the difference” picture games…
…”Last week, the journalist John Herrman [published a theory at nymag.com].on why, exactly, Amazon seems so uninterested in the faltering quality of its shopping experience: The company would rather leave the complicated, labor-intensive business of selling things to people to someone else. To do that, it has opened its doors to roughly 2 million third-party sellers, whether they are foreign manufacturers looking for more direct access to customers or the disciples of … influencers who want to use SEO hacks to fund the purchase of rental properties. In the process, Amazon has cultivated a decentralized, disorienting mess with little in the way of discernible quality control or organization.”
“According to Herrman, that’s mainly because Amazon’s primary goal is selling the infrastructure of online shopping to other businesses—things like checkout, payment processing, and order fulfillment, which even large retailers can struggle to handle efficiently. Why be Amazon when you can instead make everyone else be Amazon and take a cut?“
We have more tools than ever with stuff like reviewmeta and camelcamelcamel. Somehow there is also a community of enthusiasts for even the most mundane products, usually on reddit since those folks are weird.
Yeah, if you trust Amazon to filter out the aliexpress drop shipment trash for you, you’re probably going to have a bad time. There is more information out there now than ever before if you’re willing to use it.
Even here we have that surprisingly useful thread about worthwhile products. I bought some Oxo scrubber that was recommended. kayT was right about it being legit.
You are right that one is not obliged to order an oddly named knockoff. Amazon does not always provide the lowest price or best value. But it sometimes does. Personally, I have sometimes been amazed by short delivery times and have generally found what I was looking for. My main quibble was an unfulfilled order during Covid, which was likely not Amazon’s fault.
As a sort of answer, I can’t even read the article. I need to register, or join, or something. So before that, I need to know what that entails, what personal info/addr/email/etc. must be surrendered to the publisher. What will they do with it? What lengthy and incomprehensible EULA I must agree to, and in what way it legally binds me. To completely understand that, I really need the services of an attorney – so how do I pick one of the legions that appear when I google? What do they charge, and what legal agreements will they insist on?
No. It’s not possible to be an informed consumer beyond a few subjects in which I have expertise, or personal friends with same. The time and expense to cover all bases before clicking “buy” is beyond most of us.
And it’s getting worse, imo.
In 2011, I needed to buy steps (running boards) for my new truck. I rummaged around on Amazon and quickly found several options with detailed information on length, attachment points, height, and precise information about which exact truck models (brand, year, options, models, bed-type, etc.). Clicked “buy” and they were on my porch in a few days – and fit perfectly.
Last week I tried to do the same for another new truck. After spending close to an hour, I was unable to find any seller that provided enough information to ensure it fit my exact model. Even posting questions got me nothing but bland assurances “Fits All Model! Tightly and True!”. Amazon is becoming useless, and other sites are not much better. I gave up finding it online.
In this thread, I asked the SDMB about the vulnerabilities of keyless ignition (to thieves). I posed 5 specific questions which admittedly, might not have exact answers, but hoped for some guidance. The result was a lively and interesting discussion, with many trying to guess the risk, etc. Despite everyone trying to help, I came away with no specific answers. I’ve followed everyone’s links, and learned a great deal, but am no closer to knowing my level of risk or what I should do (if anything). I asked two different shops about this and got no answers, other than each trying to sell me their expensive aftermarket security systems.
A final example:
I’ve spent the last 2 weeks youtubing, googling, and asking 4 different mechanic shops about the risks of catalytic converter theft, if there are ways to protect against it, and what the actual risks are for my specific vehicle. Again, almost nothing useful, beyond selling their specific type of guard. The only actual info was the dealer telling me they’re running 4 to 6 weeks getting replacements, with some models running into 3+ months. After probably 20 hours of reading and asking, the only data I have is that a theft will disable my vehicle for a very long time.
I’m not sure it was ever possible to be a well-informed consumer, because in the past I simply took the word of my local “expert”, which probably wasn’t any better than today. My Dad’s advice “Always buy GM!” isn’t based on any real information, yet he sticks with that brand religiously, even into his 80s. Dad always got his information from his network of “good ole boys”, and I wonder if I’m really better informed now, even with my global network available.
I find it curious that I read this thread immediately after the GD thread asking whether it is possible to live like in the 50s-60s.. Both strike me as reflecting people’s ever increasing desire to get more and more stuff, faster and cheaper.
I agree that you could never be an informed consumer. Heck, I never even thought Consumer Reports was all that useful, but it was SOMETHING. It was possible to identify the priciest best models and the cheapest crap, but really spotting meaningful differences in the middle was a crapshoot.
One of the best approaches was to rely on friends/family who made similar purchases, or known and trusted experts. Today the internet wants you to think EVERYONE is your friend/family and/or a trusted expert. And A LOT of people buy into that.
Folks’ desire for faster and cheaper has lessened the brick/mortar experience. There are fewer stores and their stock/service is worse. Of course, going store to store to try to make meaningful comparisons was always time consuming. At least w/ Amazon you have easier returns…
Also, a good part of just about any purchase is a crapshoot. Pick ANY item and you’ll find people who say it is the best, and others who maintain it is overpriced crap.
A mindset that has often done us well was Sears’ good/better/best. We generally find ourselves well-satisfied with “better.” Chances are we’ll be dissatisfied with the cheapest version, but we likely don’t need the bells and whistles on the deluxe model. I you are just buying something reasonably cheap, you are well-served to make sure your expectations reflect the price.
Curious. Pretty much all the information that I’ve come across clearly indicates that ANY sort of guard is sufficient protection, because it will make a would-be thief move on to a less-guarded vehicle.
This experience has been given a name: enshittification, and I first heard about here, and in the article linked in that post.
According to the author of that article, Cory Doctorow:
HERE IS HOW platforms die: First, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.
I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a “two-sided market,” where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, hold each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.
i got the feeling that it is pretty easy to be an inf.cust (IC).
as somebody who grew up in the boonies in the 1970ies, buying “stuff” like stereo-sets, etc… were completely up to what the local dealer had on stock (kindalike door A, B or C?) and for stuff not physically present, it was often buying what I call “Walton’s style” from some catalogue, with 1 grainy pic and 3 lines of text …
I now am (subjectively speaking) a very empowered customer and privilege buying stuff that I can research, e.g. quality of a down-jacket from Decathlon (which is sold all over the planet and has literally 100s of reviews, as opposed to a down-jacket from Zara/H&M or so that might not be researchable.
I have often refrained from buying stuff, b/c of information that was not available “above the table”, e.g. the lamp cannot be used while being charged.
also, there seems to be tons of info from users on reddit and YT… that is also helpful to find out if you can live with some drawbacks of a given (consumer)product.
I also decry the slow death of the internet forums, as those were also a great source of (specific knowledge), eg. hifi, photography, etc…
There are websites that compare prices from several sources, magazines and groups that discuss and test items they like, ratings systems. There is also substantial bias, self-promotion and influencer kickbacks - but crowds are still wise providing they satisfy three conditions.
Maybe the zenith for optimal customer information was twenty years ago, but it is hard to argue customers have more information than at most other times. It is also less useful - not local, often irrelevant, hidden in industries that give a new name to everything sold in a different place.
But sure, with some diligence it is possible to be more informed and the restrictions are probably legal mumbo-jumbo as much as a search optimized for profit instead of accuracy or (according to these authors) convenience. Amazon largely gives customers what they want.
If you don’t know Ryan George, he always play all parts in his videos.
I use Fakespot to evaluate Amazon reviews. It analyzes them for deceit and gives you a revised product rating based on the analysis. It also tells you what percentage of the reviews it thinks are deceptive, and other results. It also evaluates eBay, Walmart, Best Buy, and more.
You can copy and paste the product’s Amazon page into the box on the Fakespot page, or more simply you can install an app on your mobile device or an extension in your computer’s browser.
Two thoughts -
This discussion sounds like an example of “data is not information”. Yes, there is a universe worth of commentary masquerading as information, but most isn’t really providing that value. So, to be successful one must develop additional skills at parsing through all of the garbage, which is not something everyone has the time or inclination to do.
Remember, as they say, you are the product! So, your time spent searching and researching is somehow monitized on the back end. If that is the case, would they really want you to find a quick and easy useful answer? (I know, I know, that sounds really tin-foil-hat. But, yah?)
normally I only read the 1-4 * reviews, but not the 5* … that gives you about 80% of the info for 20% of the time invested.
I also only read reviews that are longer than 1-2 sentences and provide actual information. I think it’s actually pretty easy to detect fake and PR-dpt reviews.
Also, the comment section below YT vids are often quite relevant and seem to attract also dissident voices
but, yeah “it must be true - I read it on the internet” is not the way to go
There are lots of 1 star detailed reviews that are clearly complete BS.
I look for specific details that are plausible for positive and negative reviews. For example, I bought a little sugar bowl a few weeks back and one of the key complaints was that the knob on top was too slippery to grip–that’s an oddly specific thing to point out. It turned out to be true. (I liked the appearance, and figured I’d use the spoon to lever it out).
This breaks down when looking through hundreds of randomly named clones of Chinese products.
Last week I was looking for a zip tie gun, and it turns out that there is one design that appears under a dozen different brand names, mostly around $20. I couldn’t find any good tiebreakers, except that someone mentioned that the country of origin of the Eastwood model was Taiwan. That was enough to get me to pay $30 for that one vs. the Chinese ones. I am quite happy with the quality of the tool.
Thankfully, we can return most things without much fuss, so that’s Plan B.
The Atlantic always likes to be contrarian. Read it for reporting, and never when it’s going against conventional wisdom.
Of course it was never possible in the past to be an informed consumer. The sources were too small and too underfunded to be comprehensive. Consumer Reports gave good advice, but only touched on a tiny fraction of any category.
The odds are that today the Internet does give hundreds of times as much good information about any individual product than you could ever get in the past. Filtering out the nonsense is as easy as… well as easy as filtering out the nonsense here at the Dope. Extremely easy.
Doing comprehensive research on expensive goods, to be sure, is far easier than choosing the best out of dozens of Chinese items on an Amazon search for cheap stuff. But how in the world could you compare cheap stuff twenty years ago? At least today you have some good info to search through.
I once looked back and observed, that at the time I was a Consumer Reports regular in the 80s, I actually consumed much fewer things. You save a lot by not having money to spend to begin with 
OTOH and TBF, through much of my lifetime I would expect to go to an actual store and have an actual human being who had been at this for some time advise me on what did they have or were getting that was good. They may have wanted to make a sale but also wanted me to come back next time. Alas, that itself was already declining with the rise of the Big Box…
Must agree inofar as these were very useful in expanding one of the classic means of product evaluation, namely “word-of-mouth”. People who actually were interested in the product and/or the use for the product, had purchased it or a competing brand, and were interesting in discussing pros and cons, comparing experiences, posting extensive point-by points.
Their replacement by “influencers” in social media – often, paid to do little more than product placements, is a deterioration of the quality of information out there. We suffer a “bad money drives out good” phenomenon.
Consumers Reports reviews the same few products again and again. The Canadian version tends to include many items unavailable here. It still has some value, and is at least relatively unbiased.
I agree, but the risk analysis isn’t that simple. The only available guard large enough to fit my truck’s cats (plural) is around $2400 installed. ($800 each, plus labor for both)
I’m not sure that’s a good ROI, and don’t have enough information to figure it out. At present, my insurance doesn’t offer a discount for installing this, which would be some sort of assurance it works. My current plan is to get enough flexible exhaust pipe and clamps/equipment to make a usable emergency repair. Then open a claim and plan down time for the repair when back home.