Is it time to revisit BLP?

http://www.blacklightpower.com/

I’ve been following BLP for many years now, at their website and over at Yahoo(http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SocietyforClassicalPhysics/info)

I must confess it was mostly for amusement purposes, watching physicists, chemists and mathematicians arguing back and forth about things which I could barely comprehend.

I have always thought if it sounded too good to be true it probably wasn’t but this theory of the “hydrino” if nothing else is certainly intriguing.

I mean really, a car going 3000 miles on a liter of water with no emissions?

They have posted validation reports from some pretty smart people here,
http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/validation-reports/

And they have a fairly large technical report posted here,

So whats the straightdope, Is there something to this or not?

Blacklight Power is, has always been, and will always be, a bunch of crooks who will take your money and give you nothing in return. That’s it, end of story.

The front page reads like the gobbledygook of the “turbo encabulator” spoof .

There’ the hint of science though… But its all half baked. What is his waste product ?
Hydrogen becomes what ?
If you do make a hydrino, completely hypothetical that is… and take the energy away to be used elsewhere… Well you have a hydrino left over as a waste… and whats it going to do ? Its gonna suck the energy straight back and revert to being hydrogen. So… the sure way to tell if this is a hydrino generator is to find the cold hydrogen that is left over… its got to be warmed up somewhere…
Maybe the polar vortex over USA was the BLP warming up hydrino’s after being used for a bit ? :slight_smile:

This right here is enough to tell me it’s nonsense. Even ignoring the 3000 miles part. Water is what’s left over AFTER an energy-producing reaction. It’s like ash after a fire. It’s quite a low-energy material in itself. I assume they’re talking about using water as a source of hydrogen, but that of course requires a large input of energy to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. It’s not a fuel.

Why waste time on this stuff when perpetual motion has been ‘discovered’ :rolleyes: :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn

(Of course there are always claims like these and the chance to ‘invest’ your money in them. What matters is when the first working model is produced.)

hmmm, I’ll put you down as undecided.

I guess I was hoping for a discussion on the merits of their “discovery”

It does make you wonder why all those Phd’s would continue to work for BLP and put there names and reputations to validation reports if they were just “a bunch of crooks”?

Because they’re getting paid for it, of course. Doctors are just as prone to greed and unethical behavior as those in any other walk of life.

There is no discovery, so there’s nothing to discuss.

Holy fucking bullshit, Batman!

If this was possible, they would have taken over from every power company in the country. This would be such a earth shaking breakthrough that if it was demonstrated, there would be no way to keep it under wraps.

The retired professor put his name down to observing some meters showing performance in terms of milliWatts … that’s nothing, he should have said

" I was called in to see a device capable of making many horsepower … but was shown only a few milliWatts… and so I walked out … All evidence suggests I was lied to."

Well, they are based in Ireland, so of course they have alien technology.

Money. Money outweighs all sorts of worries about name and reputation. Hell, you’re assuming that any of these people had names and reputations to worry about protecting in the first place.

you can read their resumes here-

http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/validation-reports/

I wonder what the going rate is to buy off a Phd by now?

I’ll be graduating this summer. Bidding is open…

This made me chuckle, because it’s easy to generate 10,000,000 watts. All you need is a 30 kV capacitor, 30 kV power supply, and an 8.2 Ω non-inductive resistor. Charge the cap to 30 kV, and then discharge it using the resistor. 10,000,000 watts! Use a lower-valued resistor for even more power! :slight_smile:

First Glenn, are you willing to accept the possibility that this work is not true and the claims made may not stand up to independent scrutiny?

If you can truly answer that question with a “yes”, then we can have a good discussion of the merits and weaknesses of the work. If you aren’t willing to accept that this could be totally or partially wrong than I won’t be able to help you in your questions.

Answer truthfully and honestly, and we may be able to get to the bottom of the idea.

Oh absolutely, I am by nature a skeptic

It’s just that when it comes to BLP I don’t have the chops to understand the science behind it. So when they published their validation reports last year it made me start to think there might be something to this. For me, when educated and experienced people sign there name to something it adds a lot more credence to it

As for money , BLP says the 75 million or so they have gotten is institutional money, and even though I don’t travel in those circles I would think someone would have to answer for where they invest that money.

When I’ve tried to question people on their BLP’s claims, the response I get is to poo-poo the idea or question the integrity of the people working there. No one says it can’t work because…

Having said that, I’d like to hear something on the validity of BLP’s CIHT cell

http://www.blacklightpower.com/technology/ciht-cell/

Sure, they do. I guess it hasn’t been spelled out, but, basically, the energy density isn’t there.

Let’s say somebody claimed they had an 8 person SUV weighting 4000 pounds running on a new type of gasoline engine that got 50000 miles per gallon. Internal combustion. Not fusion or anything exotic.

I doubt anybody is going to explicitly spell out the technical reasons this is infeasible because it’s almost ridiculous on its face. At some point, incredulity should win out. If you want to think yourself a skeptic, you should work on your credulousness.

The claims this group makes are along those lines.

As for claims of funding, if you accept the premise that this group may be composed of con artists, you have an explanation - they may also be lying about their funding.

It’s not impossible in the sense that it violates mechanical principles and laws. But if almost all hydrogen atoms were not in their ground state, which is what BLP claims, and which is required for their energy from nothing schemes, that would be a staggering violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That is not completely impossible – respectable physicists discuss the possibility that the universe is currently stuck in a false vacuum and there exists a barrier between where we are and the true vacuum (and God help us, incidentally, if we do fall into the true vacuum).

But you need some very, very good reason – some massive mechanical barrier – that prevents things from reaching their ground states. In this case, they provide no such barrier. Indeed, their schemes for cheap energy require that it be quite easy to provoke hydrogen into its (hitherto unknown) ground state. (I mean, if they said it required colliding three black holes into each other at a precise angle, at 98% of the speed of light, you could actually maybe sort of believe it’s the kind of process that hasn’t naturally occured very much, and that’s why the ground state hasn’t generally been reached. But then they’d need a lot more than $75 million in development costs.)

OK, now we’re getting ridiculous: there is a ground state of hydrogen which has never before been found, because from the birth of the universe until now, no process or event – not star formation, fusion, novae, supernovae, neutron star formation, planetary formation, irradiation by everything from radio to gamma rays, *nothing * has been able to push almost all H atoms now on the Earth into their true ground states but mirabile dictu it turns out some relatively trivial and commonplace electrochemistry can. Uh…sure.

To put this in more plebian terms, it’s as if someone came up to you and said I have this fantastic scheme for making ridiculous amounts of money! You know how real estate in downtown Manhattan goes for fantastic sums of money? If we get 2 or 3 acres of virgin land right on 5th Avenue, and sell it – wow! will we be rich!

Er…you point out…but where would we get such land? It’s all owned already, of course. At this your friend smiles broadly. Nonsense! That’s where the real cleverness comes in. See, I have found that in fact there are 22 acres right in Manhattan that the Indians never sold to the white men, so they’ve been totally undeveloped since the early 1600s. All we need to do is give these guys I know, descendants of the original inhabitants, some beads and shells and stuff – and bob’s your uncle! What do you say? You in?

You’d be rightly skeptical, of course, that there existed unclaimed virgin land in Manhattan. It’s not that it’s impossible, literally, it’s just requires ridiculous assumptions about an extraordinarily unlikely chain of coincidences through the last 300 years of history. It’s the same way with BLP. The existence of a lower ground state for hydrogen which has not been reached in 14 billion years of natural events – but which a few schmoes with an electrochemical cell can easily reach – requires ridiculous assumptions about an incredibly unlikely chain of coincidences through the history of the universe to date.

Like the others have said, it’s ridiculous on the face of it.
They’re claiming to produce as much power as a commercial nuclear power plant, but in a volume of only one cubic foot. Such levels of power wouldn’t need complicated scientific analysis to demonstrate their reality; just turning it on would produce so much heat and light that everyone would see it working just by looking at it.