I think every single Senator knew Anita Hill was telling the truth … and many of them thought “What’s the fuss? I flirted with two of my interns just yesterday!”
Should Chairman Biden have protected Ms. Hill’s honor? Maybe, but he’d have come across as partisan.
I was already concerned about Biden’s age, and the fact that he’s not super-smart. I don’t know if these fondling allegations would doom him; they’re just the final straw for me. But expect to see some smoke before a real fire — is there any charge likely against Booker? (I’m not happy to give racist morons yet another reason to vote for Trump, but I’m going with Booker by process of elimination.)
In the #MeToo era I do not see how he expects to get past this.
Biden said, “Not once — never — did I believe I acted inappropriately." But that is the issue isn’t it? He literally thinks his inappropriate actions are fine. What’s the big deal?
If you are a woman would you be comfortable with that? If you are a man would you be comfortable with that (either if he did that to you or he did that to your wife)? I doubt you would. I know I wouldn’t. That Biden doesn’t see it should be disqualifying.
I did not like Biden before this (and I am on record here about that) and am frankly happy if this torpedoes his candidacy.
Please do give details. Saw one that showed the scene from a medium distance, then cut to replay the same scene with a close-up view of Biden and that one little girl. If you call that ‘obviously edited,’ well, it was obvious, but not in the sense of giving a false impression of anything.
If you’ve got something more, do tell.
This is getting to be like, “if you do X, the terrorists have already won” from back in the day.
Maybe they are all ok with it too. Or maybe they know better than to criticize the vice president of the United States who is above their husband/dad in the political hierarchy.
Biden likely* has* sometimes touched with good intent and misread without being aware of it. He should be own up to the discomfort that, in the context of the power dynamics, has caused. This was one of the more likely more common times that he read it exactly right.
I think Lucy Flores’ (and anyone else who cares to speak about their personal experiences with Joe Biden) statements should be considered with regards to Biden’s candidacy. Her allegations strike me as credible. Biden’s response hits a few good notes (not attacking Flores in any way or implying dishonesty and praising her for coming forward) and fails to hit some other notes it probably should have (Biden should make it clear that he now understands that physical affection is not always welcome, and he will be much more careful to not give hugs or other affection to strangers without clear signs that it would be welcome). I don’t know if this will sink his candidacy; I will take this allegation and any others seriously and into account, and his response, when evaluating who to support.
I think random anonymous internet video cuts of Biden hugging or otherwise touching people who have not made any allegations against him, or otherwise provided their consent for images of their bodies to be used in political attack videos, should not be considered or cited as anything beyond random internet trash.
I have occasionally felt my personal space was invaded by people who just assume that “friendly” touching is always welcome. This was probably not sexual assault (I’m talking about my experiences; Flores speaks for herself), but it’s still a related issue in the sense that some people seem to have a sense of entitlement towards other people’s bodies, even if it’s not meant in any way sexually. Based on Flores’ account, Biden may sometimes have this sense of entitlement to be physically affectionate with those who may not welcome this, and hopefully he will re-evaluate this feeling of entitlement and refrain from touching strangers who have not made it clear that it is welcome (like, say, opening their arms for a hug).
I think this is a reasonable and credible allegation and criticism by Flores.
I see ninja’ed but it highlights how easy it is to edit things to give an appearance of something when you have decades of clips to work with and people willing to say what others were thinking instead of actually listening to them.
When the people in those clips tell us how they felt about Biden’s touch then we have some n to work with … and after decades I am sure there is some n … while it is people who come in with a pre-existing dislike for Biden telling us what the people thought, without asking them and without their consent to speak for them … then, uh, no.
In this case the offense caused by a power dynamic upon Stephanie Carter was by people like Whack-a-Mole acting as a mob using her image misleadingly to serve their own purposes. Not sure about the others but before you use these people for your own ends maybe you should know?
I see that now Whack-a-Mole is trying to analogize every touch as “groping” … well such is how it goes.
Hey let me play too!
Let’s say that getting out of a crowded subway you occasionally tap people on the shoulder to get their attention when they don’t move to let you out after you say excuse me. Most people turn and then move out the way, one feels you have groped them sexually, by touching them without permission.
Have you been groping all those people you tapped on the shoulder?
Also an analogy fail but a less poor fail than yours.
There is a link above of Biden doing his thing repeatedly to other people (including young girls). Let’s assume this is what he did to Flores since it seems a common thing for him to do.
Are men to be beholden to whatever women think is bad touching or is there some criteria men can use to know, before they touch, what constitutes a bad touch?
Frankly your world of “bad/good touch is whatever a given woman says it is” is a scary world to live in.
As far as I can tell, these women and girls have not consented to having images of their bodies being touched used for political attacks. IMO it’s inappropriate for you to continue to advocate that this consent of these women and girls, for the usage of these images, be violated. Flores has spoken out about this and it’s entirely reasonable to use her statements to criticize/critique Biden’s behavior. It’s not reasonable or appropriate to use videos and images of people being touched, who may or may not have been close friends of Biden (or otherwise welcomed his affection), and have not consented to having their image used in this way, for political attacks.
I’m being extremely serious. It’s inappropriate to use an image of someone being affectionately touched, to attack someone else, unless that person has consented to their image being used in that way and/or spoken out about it publicly.
I’m saying that you have no idea if the girls and women in that video want their images to be used in this sort of attack (much less whether they are friends of Biden and/or welcomed his affection), and without this knowledge, it’s inappropriate to use these images for this sort of attack.
It really is all about consent. Consent for touching/affection, for getting inside someone’s “personal space”, and consent for using images of the recipients of such behavior for political attacks. It isn’t complicated. Flores has made a reasonable and credible allegation that Biden invaded her personal space. It’s reasonable to discuss this allegation. It’s not reasonable to use random internet videos of women and girls being touched if they haven’t consented to their images being used in this way.
I am not saying or suggesting Biden groped these women. You could tell because, right at the top of my post, I labelled it “Hypothetical”. Hypothetical is not the same thing as an analogy. Something I am reasonably sure you know.
I was trying to use an unambiguous example of inappropriate touching to determine where the line is drawn. According to kayT above it is whatever a woman says it is since men cannot tell a woman what is good or bad touching.
