So you are being snarky instead of just agreeing because I didn’t come across in the way you wanted me to. You think I have the right idea but since I am not intense enough my lack of intensity should be condemned. Let me guess, early to mid 20s?
Donald Trump sure is a Saca-somethin’…
Rather than respond with yet another answer that will draw your wrath, I will say merely that you guessed wrong by about forty years. I tend to assume that people here are brighter than average and can easily grasp the meaning of oblique commentary, including sarcasm. I will adapt this assumption.
Drew my wrath? I can’t remember retorting rudely to someone who bothered to share their thoughts with me because I already knew or agreed with them.
This is going nowhere and is off topic, I won’t be responding again.
Whether I agree with you or not, that was nicely worded.
Wait. Before I express an opinion, is this a forum where I can express a political opinion on this subject?
I’d hate to be driving fast through some town with some Scum hiding behind a billboard looking to take pot shots at me with a shotgun just because I let the sun set on my ass here…
I suspect, it has to do with Asian immigration policies, which were heavily discriminatory towards East Asians (and Chinese in particular) and the larger proportion of East Asian immigrants in the U.S. The U.S. didn’t have substantial South Asian immigration until after Indian Independence - by which time Americans had pretty much associated Asian (and the predecessor word Oriental) with East Asian. Britain and the Commonwealth countries had much more awareness of India due to the colonial impact.
Immigration from all Asian countries was heavily restricted until the Johnson administration, I believe. If I recall correctly, few Indians had immigrated to California in the early 20th century, but Congress shut that down for several decades.
I just finished a book called “The Asiatics” which was published in 1935. Being American with an American bias, I was expecting the bulk of the book to be set in East Asia. Most of the book was set in the Middle East! The narrator didn’t get to East Asia until the last two chapters of a 400 page book. So, I’m finding this conversation very apropos.
Until 1965, immigration from everywhere except Northwestern Europe was minimal. After that, there was a sharp increase in immigration from Asia (including India and China) and Africa.
My memory from earlier this year is that I put down German-English-Swiss for my ethnicity on the census form. As I said in an earlier post, I think that’s what everyone should do, use the pickiest terms to describe their ancestry, so Kamala Harris should be referred to as being of Tamil-African-Irish-Scottish ancestry. We should get used to the fact that in the future everyone will be of a confusing mix of ancestries.
That is the goal. However, ethical data collection needs informed consent. If the Census (or voter registration) is merely requesting racial self-identification and not requiring it, then it’s probably consensual enough.
Yes, but we had a significant Chinese population due to railroad work in the late 19th century, and many large cities had a “Chinatown” - there was not nearly that level of South Asian communities anywhere in the U.S. There were smaller numbers of other East Asian immigrants. There were no similar numbers - or similar communities, of South Asian immigrants until post WWII.
Just to nitpick a little bit, a South Asian Muslim is just as likely to be Indian as Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh are, respectively, the countries with the second, third, and fourth largest Muslim populations (202 million, 195 million, and 153 million).
Just among famous South Asian-Americans, for example, Hasan Minhaj, Aziz Ansari, and Asif Mandvi’s families are Indian Muslims, not Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Minhaj’s family is from Aligarh in North Central India. Ansari’s family is Tamil. Mandvi’s family is Ismaili (Dawud Bohra) from Bombay.
Just as famous as those three is Kumail Nanjiani, who is Pakistani. His family Sindhi from Karachi. Although Karachi is the capital of Sindh, as Pakistan’s largest metropolis, there are a lot of non-Sindhis there and I believe Nanjiani claims Urdu as his first language rather than Sindhi.
As has already been mentioned, Urdu is actually a language originating in the Delhi region, so it’s just as much an Indian language as it is a Pakistani language. The main “native” languages of Pakistan are actually Panjabi, Sindhi, Pashto, and Balochi. Urdu is an “imported” language with its history and literature having developed in Delhi, Agra, Lucknow, and Hyderabad (the one in India), and its base in the local Khariboli dialect of Delhi (the same dialect that is the basis of Modern Standard Hindi).
In my view as an Indian-American, Indians and Pakistanis really are culturally one people, divided by unfortunate nationalism. So, it makes sense for us here to all identify as Desi (although I don’t personally use the term).
And this led me to look into China Grove, which I learned was not settled by Chinese immigrants no matter what the Doobie Brothers sang.
As a point of trivia, in my own family, depending on context, “Desh” (“country,” দেশ) can be used to mean “India” or “Bengal.” “Bideshi” (“foreign,” বিদেশী) can mean “external to India” or “external to Bengal.” in this case, “Bengal” meaning the cultural region of Bengal, which includes Bangladesh and the Indian state of West Bengal.
Many of my relatives (we have our roots in what is now Banggladesh) still refer to Bangladesh as “East Bengal” (Purbo Bongo, পূর্ববঙ্গ) or “in the East” (Purbe) when referring to non-political matters. Sports fans in my family support the East Bengal football (soccer) club of Calcutta, which is the arch-rival of Mohun Bagan, the preferred team of West Bengalis.
Or Afghanistan or Maldives or Sri Lanka … The nitpicking doesn’t belong to this thread so I’ll try to be brief.
I think you are missing the point. Pre partition of India (1947), Urdu was not a major language in Pakistan. After Partition of India, the leadership and the Army in Pakistan was Urdu speaking and they suppressed all other native languages. This eventually led to the massive killings in Bangladesh and the resulting creation of a new country aka Bangladesh.
There was (Started with Zia ul Haq) and still is a massive push in Pakistan to move away from Punjabi /Sindhi to Urdu. This is to reinforce an Islamic identity and move away from the Cultural (Indian) identity.
Urdu in Pakistan has been modified to introduce more words / phrases from Arabic and it’s not the same
That’s my view too but it’s not the majority view in Pakistan. Many will trace their genealogy to Arab, Turkish or Persian (Iranian) origins. You can tell by their last names.
Pakistan has made deliberate efforts to move away from the “culturally one people” thing you mentioned to a very Islamic identity. Languages like Punjabi is not considered refined and not allowed to be taught in schools. Look for Punjabi or Sindhi authors in literature from Pakistan : you will not find anything substantial.
Me too. Except maybe my family has been thrice immigrants and yours may have been twice.
Thrice as in : Bangladesh —> West Bengal —> Deep Central India —> US
I know moving within India’s states is not immigration but in many ways it has the typical problems of xenophobia, discrimination etc etc
Yeah, the nationalist and sectarian trends in all three countries is very unfortunate from my perspective. So many of the cultural and artistic accomplishments of the region really are the heritage of everyone. Trying to divide them up–like redefining the Hindustani language as two separate languages of HIndin and Urdu–makes everyone poorer.
I’m very disappointed in my Indian relatives–almost all of them are B.J.P. supporters. They’re tearing up the society.