RugbyMan, you will note that you and goboy (who has since modified his original thoughts on the subject) are the only ones who have introduced the idea of racism, here.
No one has been called a racist. oldscratch did not even use the term in the post to which you responded–you did.
It really isn’t quite appropriate to complain that racism is a pre-packaged ad hominem attack when no one has even made the charge.
BTW, thanks for the kind words, Oldscratch.
Sterling,darling, If I wasn’t already married, I’d suggest we get married and research some Welsh German Itallian holidays we could throw in there!
On a serious note, to quote my father, (and I’m sure some more famous person somewhere) “If it aint broke, don’t fix it!” i.e. If one does not wish to celebrate or recognize Kwanzaa, why should one care what others do in the privacy of their own homes or in their place of worship. Last time I looked, nobody could stop me from celebrating “sassyKYredhead Day” so long as it doesn’t become publically (sp?) offensive to others!
Sassy
I’m a member of a segregated species: a white, middle aged male. According to reports and statistics in general, we are under attack from nearly all other races as well as all woman’s groups and are starting to suffer from Racial Guilt.
So, in light of Kwanzaa, we should be able to create ‘Jubilee Day’, where in all w/m/m’s can celebrate their whiteness, maleness, create and encourage a colorful ritual to go along with it (something like the Masonic stuff, only not as solemn), wear Hawaiian shirts, fez hats, boondocker shoes, decorate our homes with the Sacred Beer Can, feast on the Holy Buffalo Wings, Beef Jerky, rare sirloin, and chips, force Congress, by claiming racial discrimination, to declare it a holiday, get it put in the schools, advertised on TV and in books to justify it’s existence and carefully declare that any race may participate in it? I must mention the creating and selling of articals and goods, as well as books about the holiday, which can be easily cobbled together over night.
When in actuality, it is only to salve our bruised egos, to create white male solidarity, to have an excuse to be different in order to restore our pride and to tell great, often fictional tales, about what great warriors, humanitarians, intellectuals and explorers our ancestors were.
Think it would fly?
Jubilee? I thought it was called “Superbowl Sunday.”
SPLORT
Jesus God, tomndebb, warn people when you’re going to do that!
I hope this was not an attack on all ethnically oriented holidays, and just the end to your rather humorous satire! (Really, it was hilarious!) To think that all groups who take pride in their heritage have “bruised egos” or need to “restore pride” is very one-sided and an unfair generalization.
There is definitely a difference in wishing to celebrate one’s heritage and being opressed, depressed, repressed, or any other kind of "pressed that comes to mind!
Sassy
P.S. tomndebb --nice comeback:)
O.K!!! I’m confused!!!
To expand upon my earlier point: I have no problem with my kids being taught about any genuine holiday in school as long as they learn about it in a true cultural context and not in a diluted quasi-religious context (Santa and reindeer) or an evangelical context (singing religious Christmas carols). My concern about Kwanzaa is that it’s not clear to me that many Black families celebrate it, but my kids are taught that it is an “African-American” holiday, implying that most or all Black families celebrate it. I’m sure that most Dopers (even the most politically correct ones, among whom I count myself) would agree that teaching kids something that isn’t true is wrong. Obviously I could attempt to research the prevalence of Kwanzaa celebration among Black families and if it is low, present the data to the schools and suggest they refrain from teaching about it until it becomes more accepted among Black families. But then we all know what that would make me, right?
That’s why I got those crazy, queasy, quasi-Kwanzaa blues…
Walk carefully there least you be accused of being racist!
Tippy-toe through the PC minefield and try not to set anything off!
Around here, in the black community, there are stores holding Kwanzaa sales but from what I have noticed, the basic trappings somewhat vary. I also do not know of any local black people who celebrate the holiday.
Superbowl Sunday does not apply as it is multiracial and I know women who go just as nuts as the men over it. (Now, that is a disheartening sight.)
Please don’t cane me, sir!!! I’ll try to be more self-loathing in the future, I promise!! It’s my fault for slavery and oppression, I know it is, honest!!!
A lot of people have seemed to introduce the idea of racism the OTHER way though, haven’t they?
Just saving you the trouble of calling me one since I am politically incorrect (and proud of it), and I know that if I don’t toe the line properly, then I’m a racist (as well as a sexist and homophobe).
Well, I suppose I’ve always had a problem with the “appropriate” getting in the way of the truth…I guess I’m just funny that way sometimes!
I suppose you’ve noticed that I prefer to charge right through and really don’t care what flak hits me
Well, having refrained from calling Johnsbury, km2, and even Captain Ed racist, I doubt that I would have gone after you with the epithet. (I do find it rather pathetic that folks that really don’t have to deal with genuine discrimination get worked up if the other guy is not suffering enough discrimination to justify a holy war.)
I’m sorry. I must have missed whatever “truth” you posted. You posted a question that erroneously implied that a whole list of people of different European ethnic groups were somehow forbidden to celebrate their heritage when that is clearly not the case. You attempted to use that error to imply that some disservice was being done to people of European descent when no disservice has been identified.
When I pointed out that you could find those celebrations if you looked (suggesting that you might need to relocate if you live in a section of the country that has little ethnic variety), you replied with the red herring that you would choose your location based on job opportunities.
I have never suggested that you should do other than pursue the American Dream. To whine that there is some conspiracy against people of European descent celebrating their heritage simply because you are unfamiliar with the fact that they all do, however, is a display of ignorance and this site is dedicated to stamping out ignorance.
You further erroneously posted another red herring implying that you might be called a racist for your opinions. Finally you attempted a sarcastic reply that you would attempt to be more successful in your self-loathing because you are (apparently) white. Do what you want, but I have never suggested that anyone loathe themselves and I am as opposed to anti-white racism as any other racism.
I doubt that you are a racist, at all. You have provided evidence that you are a crank, but that is not conclusive at this time.
In your three posts rife with errors, I am afraid that I have found little “truth.” Hostility, ignorance, vague assertions of unfairness, but no truth. To paraphrase a remark made earlier in this thread:
[QUOTE]
Well, having refrained from calling Johnsbury, km2, and even Captain Ed racist, I doubt that I would have gone after you with the epithet. (I do find it rather pathetic that folks that really don’t have to deal with genuine discrimination get worked up if the other guy is not suffering enough discrimination to justify a holy war.)
[QUOTE]
Well, I thank you then.
My fight is against GOVERNMENTAL discrimination. Unfortunately, nowadays it seems that governmental policy is affirmative action, which is anti-white (of course, the government also deals in mental slavery…ie, welfare). Private businesses have the right to associate with whoever they choose. If they choose not to allow certain customers, then that is their right of free association. Of course, there would be protests (and rightly so) and they’d lose a great deal of their business…so the market regulates discrimination quite nicely…the government has no place doing so.
I simply point out the double standard that has generally been generally posited on this thread, and in general societal thinking, that some heritage is more worthy than others.
I believe this quote sums up why I am so utterly pissed about this:
[QUOTE Frankly, Kwanzaa scares me far less than European History Month. A celbration of White European Culture. Which we clebrate here in CA. [/QUOTE]
The only culture I celebrate is the American culture of freedom and liberty, which certainly has taken a beating recently.
Perhaps nobody on this board has called me a racist, but that seems to be a standard technique to quiet dissent (Jesse Jackson serves as a perfect example).
That sarcastic statement was because I do not feel any responsibility whatsoever for slavery and hence I will not accept the guilt that implicitly follows that responsibility.
If the unerring pursuit of liberty without compromise makes me a crank, then I shall wear that name and any others you care to throw at me with honor. Perhaps I am a little on the passionate side, but throwing around a bunch of abstract numbers and intellectual tracts and appealing to the mind doesn’t win a person, does it?..only appealing to a person’s convictions is going to win the fight for freedom and liberty. (That is certainly one place where I agree with most libertarians…their lack of passion for these principles of freedom and liberty that they supposedly hold so dear.)
Hostility…perhaps. Ignorance…perhaps my principles are ignorant in your eyes but I base them on rational thought and my conscious acceptance of the way that things are (and not being afraid to say so). Vague assertions of unfairness…I certainly hope that there is nothing vague about the assertions that I have made…otherwise I shall have to be more clear in the future!
Wait! Wait! Both of you!
Racism is good business! 
Have you not noticed? Think about all of the stores, magazines, beauty products, clothing lines, hair care, books, food stores and accessories set up mainly for members of specific ethic groups! FUBU comes to mind. Sam’s Bail Bonds and BBQ is another. The term Bodega slips nicely into line and in Miami, Florida, one must be bilingual to do business.
Think of the millions which would be lost yearly by not playing the race card! Of course, to be PC, it must be stated that members of all races may buy these goods. What would basketball sponsors do without racism? Think of the sneaker companies!! Who would drink the ‘40s’? Without racism there would be no flavored malt alcohol beverages! :eek:
Without racism, where would the government shovel head start funds? 
What would the market do if no one ate beans and rice? Who would buy the chitlins, collard greens, seasoning bacon and MD 20-20?
Think of the funds being shoveled through racist groups. Jessie Jackson would become a nobody. Thousands of groups of misguided people would no longer have a reason to clump together and hate and spend millions on ant-whoever booklets, pamphlets, barbers to shave their heads, manufacturers to make their ‘club’ clothing and bandana imports would drop.
In Texas, farmers would go bankrupt without racism enabling them to get cheap, illegal labor that they can ship back across the border by calling in Immigration before pay day. Even the music business would crash and they would have to sell CDs for $6 instead of $15.
Landlords might have to repair their properties more often. Lawyers could not claim that their clients were responding to racial pressures when they committed those crimes. Insurance companies would loose billions by having to stop red lining whole communities. Some nations would loose half of their income if racial squabbles stopped!
Racism is good for business! :rolleyes:
So, promote any form of racist holiday, fabricated or not, because it is good for the economy! :mad:
It’s so nice when people like you show their ignorance. Affirmative actions is about as anti-white as you are smart. Maybe you’ve forgotten about the millions of White women who have benifitted from affirmative action.
I’m always happy to see a low opinion confirmed. I thought this twit was a johny one note, an idjit and a crank from the Great Debates. Now I see its true.
As (1) Af. action benefits white women and (2) as presently constructed simply requires you not to discriminate against an equally qualified ‘minority’ its hard to see this in any rational terms as anti-white. Maybe anti-bigot, but not anti-white. I’ve certainly never, ever had any actual problems, nor have I ever heard of non-bsing problems. It’s always third hand. Now, if af. action really were anti-white, I would expect some hard data showing demonstrable gains by minorities, while increased unemployment among white males. Since this data does not exist, I find it hard to credit there is in fact a problem.
This happens to be off-topic so I think we should leave your misplaced obsessions out of this.
Thankfully public policy is smarter than you.
Hmm, given this is not what actual historical experience reflects, I daresay that government has every place doing so.
That double standard seems to exist only in your twisted and impoverished imagination.
Ah is this the same American culture that sanctioned slavery, Tom Crow and lynchings right up until the 1970s? If you’d like to look at the big picture, warts and all, you’d find something else.
Ahhh, this is a wonderful example of this idjits preconceptions: no one’s actually called me a racist but I expect it … drag in Jesse Jackson as a method of ad hominem attack… Fucking hypocrital argument if I ever saw one.
No, imposition of your preconceptions, distortions of others words and generally sounding off like an irrational johnny one note makes you a crank. Wear it with honor as you like.
Let me see if I can translate this:
I’m too stupid to understand rational arguments and care not a whit for facts. Winning me over requires illogical appeals to my emotions and preconceptions. I call my preconceptions “freedom and liberty” and am insensinate to rationale critiques.
I’d call this ignorance.
Perhaps? You reek it.
Hmm, care to reconcile your disdain for
and your assertion that
with rationality? Perhaps you have your own personal definition?
[hijack]
Collounsbury, will you marry me?
[/hijack]
Man, I bet you blow your nose right out onto the sidewalk, too!
Bravo, Mr. Collounsbury, on your eloquent rebuttal. Since the prevailing opinion on the OP seems to be that Kwanzaa is not racist, may I propose a related question in this same thread, or would that be considered a hijack? Has Kwanzaa achieved the status of a genuine cultural holiday worthy of being studied in school alongside Christmas, Hannukah, and other holidays based on religion and/or ethnicity?
Well there are standards you know. I can’t just marry anyone. So,are you a cheesemaker? (Or as some would interpet it, workers in a wide variaty of dairy products) Or do you speak halpulaaren? Either way. There is of course this small matter…
Sputnick
Gracias; really wasn’t eloquent but in comparision with his self-serving whinging…
Dunno, I actually find the whole K thing a bit silly. Not sure if it has actually reached any kind of actual critical mass, but probably someone from the community should answer.
Kwanzaa is nice and everything. No one I know actually celebrates Kwanzaa, but don’t let me say that it doesn’t speak to me (as I’ve noted before) because some people will be quite upset by this.
Not too many people celebrate it but, if you are black, your supposed to want to celebrate it.