Is Law School Worth It?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I apologize if this was covered before, and the question is being asked in good faith.

I read a lot of random books, and one of them was by a law professor (Campos) who argued going to law school was a bad idea for many bright students, especially those who lack connections and pay their own way. The tone of the book was remarkably negative and I don’t think reflects the experiences of the people I know who studied law. I am Canadian, and the book was about the US.

His arguments were that fees were much higher than most graduates could easily pay back, that the number of graduates who are employed at larger firms is very small, that many graduates are not employed at a job requiring bar-level knowledge, that meaningful “social justice” jobs pay poorly, that scholarships are often contingent on high placement but marking is arbitrary, that the Socratic teaching method used is inefficient, and that rankings of schools are less relevant than employment statistics. He felt law schools deliberately do not portray the realities of practicing law.

My knowledge of the law is very basic, and I know even less about lawyers and do not watch much TV. But the author clearly had an axe to grind. I’m sure some of his points are valid — teaching complex subjects can be dull and inefficient, fees are often high, school reputations can be overrated. But is the author broadly correct? Would you recommend a bright friend to go to a highly rated law school, or focus on other things?

2

I did not go to law school, but three of my friends from college did – all of them very very smart people, though none were wealthy nor politically connected.

None of the three are practicing law today, though they all did for a time; none of them particularly enjoyed actually working as lawyers, and none of them wound up with particularly high-paying positions. Two of the three went back to school to get Ph.Ds, and both are now in academia (one is a law professor, the other in university administration); the third changed careers entirely, and went into IT.

Based on what I saw with my friends, I’d advise a college student (or recent grad) who was considering law school to take a long, serious look at exactly why they are interested in it, and what they hope to do with a law degree.

3

Depends, do they actually want to be a lawyer and have a realistic idea of what that entails, or are they in “oh crap, what am I going to do after I graduate from college?” mode? In ten years of being a faculty adviser to English majors, I’ve seen both, and I would never recommend that a student apply to any graduate or professional program unless they had a clear sense of why they wanted that particular degree, and of what a career path in that field actually looks like.

4

IANAL but my understanding is that for a few years the legal profession hasn’t been as great as it once was. Supposedly many people graduate even from really good schools but aren’t able to find jobs in the law. The profession has been subject to the same market forces as others, and automation and outsourcing have done damage to it much as it has to others.

In short, don’t do it, unless you can attend one of the top-ten or even top-five law schools and graduate at the top of the class.

5

And by the way, when I was considering it, I bought a book called “29 Reasons Not To Go To Law School” (one was that many think they’re going to go into social justice law, fighting unjust evictions and corporate polluters, but end up in deadly dull corporate law jobs just to pay back the student loans) and talked myself out of it. (My father wanted me to go, though, so he drove me into New Haven to meet with the dean and while I was waiting for the appointment looked at a photo on the wall of the Class of 1966 and who I could identify. “Senator, Senator, Senator, CEO, Governor, Judge, etc.” Really quite amazing.)

6

The law school in New Haven has a s omewhat different track record for post-graduation placements than most other law schools … :slight_smile:

7

This is extremely good advice, not just for potential law students, but any post-grad. Thank you for imposing rigour on the process.

8

Getting back to the OP, I’m so far past the grad process that I can’t contribute much on the issue of loans and so on. My impression, though, is that the job market for new lawyers in the US is very tough, and a major over-supply. I don’t think that’s quite the same in Canada, where we don’t have the same proliferation of law schools and they are much more uniform in quality than in the US. (For example, when the new law school opened inthe interior of BC about 10 years ago, it was the first new law school in about 30 years. Since the provincial governments fund them (we don’t have Canada completely private universities here), they tend to do a pretty rigoureux cost-benefit analysis before opening a new college. ) That cautious approach to building new law schools helps prevent an over-supply of lawyers.

Personally, I think I would have benefitted from the hard analysis that Fretful Porpentine mentions. I had only a very vague idea of how I would make a career with my law degree. Something academic, perhaps? The one thing I was sûre of was that I wouldn’t end up litigating. Guess what? Litigation is a big part of my practice, in a specialised appellate and chambers way. I don’t think any guidance counsellors could have helped me figure that out in advance, because of the specialised nature of the work. My undergrad degree and my law degrees fit together quite nicely, thank you. But I wouldn’t say it was carefully planned out.

9

Very different answers for different countries I suspect.

In the US, law school is great for smart people who are risk averse. Going to law school is, for these people, like accepting a guaranteed 4 instead of taking a roll of the die. Lots of people like that deal. For anyone with more risk tolerance, other options are usually better regardless of goals or interests.

For people trying to make lots of money, there are better but riskier options. For people trying to change the world, there are better but riskier options. But for the sure thing, nothing better than a JD from a top law school.

10

not to hijack the thread, but I have been told by people in the medical field that if you can swing it, getting an MD is almost always worth it. Even if, perhaps especially if, you don’t end up practicing medicine. Being able to say, Dr. Smith here to see… opens up many a door. Apparently law school used to be that way in certain areas (politics, business leadership, etc) but no longer has the same force.

11

So did the law degree cause them to be elected senator, etc., or was it independent of the position?

12

I went to law school because I love the law – thinking about it, talking about it, writing about it, reading. All of it. I had no idea when I applied what I’d wind up doing, but within the first week found out about an area I thought would be great for me. I was right. I love my job. So, I agree with all the people who say, it depends…

13

IANAL and all that but --------- most of the people I know who went through Law School are not practicing lawyers. But all (I believe) will say it was worth it for the various business positions, or other futures, they followed. One friend who did become an attorney says that in the business universe today it is a serious boost. If he is right or not I cannot say.

I still think plumbers school is a better bet myself; or an education degree. But that could just be me.

14

My understanding is that the number of law graduates vastly outweighs the number of law jobs out there. Same with MBAs.

So if you can’t get into a top law school, supposedly its not worth doing.

15

I’ve got friends with law degrees who aren’t called to the bar anymore, but working in business or securities. That law degree is a great asset to them, even if they’re not giving legal opinions. A law degree, focussed on business and tax law, is a great leg-up in the commercial world.

Education degree? Teachers’ degrees in the US have been stagnant for 25 years, not even keeping pace with inflation.

16

I recall one of my law school classmates who had been a financial advisor before coming to law school. In his mid-50s, he was the oldest member of our class. He never intended to become a lawyer–rather, he wanted a deeper understanding of business and tax law, so he could speak more knowledgeably with his financial clients. Not surprisingly, he concentrated on those electives in the upper years of law school. He did get his law degree, and went back to being a financial advisor.

17

So, there are only ten or twenty good jobs for law school grads in the entire country?

18

Like anything, it is probably only a good thing to do if it something you like/love. My son-in-law always dreamed of being a lawyer, and got in to a top 20 school after a lot of work. Though he graduated just as the recession hit, he has never regretted it.

The same goes for any other type of graduate school.

19

All Canadian law schools are good. We don’t have any matchbook law schools. Attending a Canadian law school will at the very least help a person learn to think rigorously analytically and creatively, and help them develop a broader view (I had a blast at mine!). Those are very valuable skills are transferable.

Canadian law school tuition used to be dirt cheap, but recently it has increased significantly, so debt load and time in school rather than working should be considered.

Almost all Canadian law grads find articling jobs, but the pay at the bottom end is low, for it is difficult for law firms to make much money from their articling students who are anything but profit centres. Remuneration for top articling students is OK.

Over the years, top performing associate lawyers will either buy into the partnership or set of on their own. Either way, they will usually do well financially.

Corporate work is usually more lucrative than personal work. There are any number of niches in which a lawyer can make a competitive advantage simply because of there being so few competitors in the niche.

There are some pressures that will or are cutting into lawyers’ work.

Paralegals are getting licenced and running their own firms, rather than being profit centres for lawyers.

In order to improve access to justice, family law procedure has been made more user friendly in some jurisdictions (particularly Ontario), so there are many self-represented people who might otherwise have used lawyers.

In real estate law, there is concern that a lot of real estate lawyer/clerk work will be lost to title insurance companies that may chose to simply insure over.

Despite such changes, the simple fact remains that there will always be a need for bright people who can sort things out, so there will always be a need for lawyers. It comes down to supply and demand, and presently supply is a tad high for many lawyers’ liking.

There have always been barriers to entry and ongoing barriers to success in law. Many years ago I had ongoing social conversations with name partners of a few of Canada’s leading firms. What was common was that they worked their asses off to get where they were, and the loved their careers. I don’t think that has changed for lawyers today.

One of them told me that when started out he had been offered a chicken in payment by a client. Sure enough, when I was a bouncing baby lawyer a client offered to pay me with a chicken. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. That’s worth keeping in mind when deciding on a career in law. All the wonderful things about the field are still there, but so are the barriers.

Bottom line: if you like what you do and you are very good at it, practising law in Canada can be a terrific career, but if you are only in it for the money, find something else.

20

Like any lucrative, prestigious profession, the law is what we call “competitive”. Similar to business school. Many people go to business or law school hoping to land what I call “golden ticket” jobs. For MBA’s, it is typically jobs in management consulting or Wall Street investment banking firms. If you go to business school with the intention of only working at McKinsey, Bain or Boston Consulting Group (and there are entire web sites dedicated to trying to get in the “MBB” consulting firms) or as an investment banking at Goldman Sachs or one of the other “bulge bracket” firms, you better be fucking awesome because it’s a very short list of jobs with a lot of highly talented applicants.

If you just want to get an MBA to expand your knowledge of marketing, accounting, economics, etc an maybe add another line to your resume, there are a lot more opportunities for you.
Similarly, law students often want to work at one of the big “AmLaw 100” law firms, which are similarly prestigious and competitive. And again, that is a relatively short and competitive list. But what I have seen is a lot of lawyers decide they don’t want to practice law anymore, so they go into management consulting, work in compliance at banks and tech companies, various roles in companies that sell to law firms and so on.
Maybe it’s a generational thing, but for the past 20+ years it seems like people have this attitude that if they complete requirements X,Y, and Z, they should receive some guaranteed benefit. Sort of like completing your homework in school. Maybe that’s the result of 20+ years of helicopter parents driving their kids to achieve in school so they can be “successful”. The real world doesn’t work that way. No one will guarantee that if you complete x years of y school, you will make z salary forever.

The other thing too is that careers don’t happen overnight. Yes, certain jobs will pay you six figures after a couple of years. But most jobs starting out don’t pay that well right out of college. Even in law or investment banking.

So the short answer is “yes”, law school is worth it if you want to be a lawyer or do something related to the law. Otherwise, it may not be your best option.