I think he’s referring to the Roman handouts of food, about the only historical example of socialism I can think of.
It definitely led very directly to the collapse of the Roman civilization. After all, after they begun the massive handouts, they only managed to last for 3 or 400 more years.
There’s an old saying on this, why liberals seem divided while conservatives seem united.
There’s many ways of moving forward, but only one way of standing still
And I believe this is somewhat true. Some liberal ideas didn’t work, so you go back and try something different. That doesn’t mean you abandoned the overall goal, just the means of getting it
Yes. Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that. Do we have a “JGalt57”?
I think it has more to do with conservatives being tyrants or wannabee tyrants, while liberals believe much more in freedom. Left wing tyrants, like conservatives, are also known for their concern over ideological purity. Liberals are the moderates.
:dubious: And those flaming assholes were any more “patriotic” than their opponents how?
You’re not even trying to maintain contact with reality, are you?
Please dial it back a bit, BrainGlutton.
Sorry. But, as Leaper helpfully pointed out in post #2 . . .
I would riposte with “Do you want fries with that?” but that was worn out during the Clinton years. The Bush “recovery” was even worse.
It’s funny to see this thread after seeing threads predicting the decline and possible extinction of conservatism and the decline and fall of the Republican Empire of Evil. The worm turns so fast these days…
As to the OP…is ‘liberalism’ dying throughout the world? Hardly. As with conservatism, these things run in cycles. Something partisan proponents always seem to forget in their enthusiasm when the worm turns their way. Right now I think the mighty pendulum of US politics is still going left, even though the Republicans had a modest reversal in this years elections. Why? Because I don’t see that conservatives have actually put forth any meaningful answers, and are merely playing on people fears and frustrations. IOW, I think that the recession has distorted the actual trajectory of political movement in this country for a while, and if the recession lessens then we’ll see where we stand.
As to Europe, I wouldn’t equate the cut back of a few of the myriad top heavy social programs in a few country with a vast recession of liberalism on that continent. Liberal ideals run VERY deep in Europe, and I seriously doubt that anything will ever put a serious dent into them…they are at the very grass roots of many European countries, pretty much taken in with their mothers milk, and they consider those things to be rights on par with your right to breathe air and drink water. And, frankly, it’s worked out for them well so far…why should they change?
While the entertainment value of this is not to be overlooked, especially with respect to certain 'dopers, I have to ask…so what? Cuba is by no means a ‘liberal’ country, and never has been, so it’s failure really reflects on the fact that communism is a failure and has nothing to do with liberalism.
-XT
C’mon, guys. It’s not like the OP is ever going to come back and follow up on his nonsense.
I agree the OP is provocative. It’s not so inflammatory that it rules out any sane conversation, so for now let’s proceed without the comments about flaming assholes and delusions.
Nope.
Most of latin america has leftist political leaders and most are doing good. Brazil is doing great, their middle class is booming
Chinese laborers are forcing new labor and environmental standards, plus pushing back on human rights abuses.
I’m sure there are other examples, but latin america and China are having leftist upsurges (I consider a grassroots labor, human rights and environmental movement like in China a leftist movement).
We liberals will still be here. Forever. Robbing the rich, imposing massive regulations that kill jobs, destroying cultural instutitions and trying to use government force to make societies mesh with our ivory tower social experiments.
I think you are posting by mistake in the very common dream thread :eek:
By killing the 9/11 Responders Bill.
Anyway, how long before this lovely thread ends up in the Pit?
Political history has long been a tug of war between “conservatism” and “liberalism”. (I put them in quotes because what is liberal or conservative changes through time.) Neither side has lost. What happens is that we try new things and discard that which doesn’t work. Some liberal ideas (like certain aspects of socialism) are being pulled back because of the debt they create. Other liberal ideas, like acceptance of same-sex marriage and marijuana, are still moving forward.
Oh. I’d assumed his name was a reference to Mr. Roark, the enigmatic host of TV’s Fantasy Island.
You have to admit, my interpretation works just as well as yours to explain the OP.
Was the guy on Fantasy Island’s first name Howard? Or begin with an H? I was pretty sure it was a Rand reference when I saw the user name.
-XT
And the kindest thing to be said for that interpretation of events is that budget cutback != a political realignment. The political center-of-gravity in most European states remains about as far left of America’s as it was five or ten years ago.
Nevertheless, and for the record, anyone involved however marginally in the Tea Party movement is a flaming asshole, and anyone who voted GOP this year should be presumed so until proven neither rectal nor incendiary.
That was a joke, xtisme.