A bit less than hell. I took the class in the middle of the jogging fad/trend. I think that’s why it was memorable.
The very first sentence shows that it was common practice to teach it as fact for centuries: “Many conservative Catholics are upset with Pope Francis, who they complain is changing church doctrine, but they hardly blinked when Pope Benedict got rid of Limbo, a Catholic doctrine that had been taught for centuries.”
From that link:
That made me curious what exactly the Baltimore Catechism said about limbo, so I tried to find it online, and I think I succeeded. Assuming I have the right document (https://www.catechism.cc/catechisms/Baltimore_Catechism.pdf), here’s what it says about Limbo:
Some of the most stirring quotes in the Bible are Christ’s defeat of Satan.
Christians believe that Christ defeated the devil after his Crucifixion and before the Resurrection.
Was that in Limbo?
Colossians 2:15 stirred my imagination as a child. I could imagine Jesus walking solemnly in a procession. Satan’s bloody, decapitated head is on a Spike. All the tortured souls celebrating the victory.
It’s very powerful imagery for anyone that reads the Bible for the first time.
Mark 1:27
“The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, ‘What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him.'” – Mark 1:27
John 12:31
“Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.” – John 12:31
Colossians 1:13
“For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves.” – Colossians 1:13
Colossians 2:15
“And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.” – Colossians 2:15
That’s consistent with what I had shared upthread, which was that Catholic theologians have hypothesized two separate “places,” both of which are referred to as a Limbo:
- The Limbo of the Fathers/Patriarchs, which is where “the souls of the just” who had died before Jesus awaited him freeing them
- The Limbo of Infants, where the souls of unbaptized babies (and, apparently, very young children), who have not committed “personal sin,” go
The Limbo of the Patriarchs, apparently, yes.
Yes, it was taught, but no longer.
I’m having a hard time getting my head around the idea that young people in major Catholic dioceses - Baltimore and Chicago - are taught by the Catholic church that Limbo exists. But somehow or another they are supposed to independently check that teaching about what is written down as offical doctrine somewhere?
I honestly don’t think that they are somehow “supposed to check.”
Speaking as someone who grew up going to Catholic schools, and was taught by a number of Catholic nuns and priests, I have no doubt that what I was taught, in regards to Catholic teachings, certain things that may not have been 100% ironclad doctrine – but instead were tradition – and Limbo was likely one of those things.
Yeah - but people in this thread are suggesting it is somehow meaningful to say that Limbo “is/was not doctrine.” Where is the average Catholic supposed to learn doctrine if not from their local church?
You’re not wrong. I suspect that a lot of Catholics just took “the Limbo of the Infants” as a given, because their priests and nuns and lay teachers taught them about it (often decades ago).
The OP (who has apparently long since abandoned his thread) asked/stated:
This entire discussion (and the spin-off discussion about Purgatory) have been about whether it is or isn’t doctrine, in answer to the OP’s question.
And, as noted in the thread, when the Catholic Church, in 2007, raised the possibility that Limbo maybe wasn’t necessary, because unbaptized babies might have a path to Heaven, a lot of devout Catholics lost their minds over the idea, because it was completely contrary to what they had been taught.
At about the same time (about a year earlier), people lost their minds about Pluto not being a planet as they were taught in grade school. The same effect.
Hmmm… maybe these are related. Could Limbo have been on Pluto?
Yes, you are correct. I was just a little too old (or in a parish just slightly too progressive) to teach from the Baltimore Catechism, but I got nearly all the same indoctrination presented as official church teachings when I was young. It came from catechism class, sermons in church, parents’ answers to questions, etc.
Purgatory was a waiting place for Heaven. There were no actual torments, such as in Hell, but souls there were in an agony of anticipation, distressed at not yet being able to share in the Beatific Vision. It was a different form of suffering.
Limbo was where the souls of unbaptized babies went. They were happy, but not able to be in God’s presence. No mention was ever made of virtuous pagans, and it was years before I thought to ask.
What actually interests me more is the change in the nature of Purgatory. Medieval writers describe it as being as bad as Hell (“When thou from hence away are passed, to Purgatory fires thou comest at last.”)
The Venerable Bede wrote of a vision in which he was guided through parts of the afterlife:
“And as we walked we came to a broad and deep valley of infinite length; it lay on our left, and one side of it was exceeding terrible with raging flames, the other no less intolerable for violent hail and cold snows drifting and sweeping through all the place. Both sides were full of the souls of men which seemed to be tossed from one side to the other as it were by a violent storm; for when they could no longer endure the fervent heat, the hapless souls leaped into the midst of the deadly cold; and finding no rest there, they leaped back again to be burnt in the midst of the unquenchable flames. Now whereas an innumerable multitude of misshapen spirits were thus tormented far and near with this interchange of misery, as far as I could see, without any interval of rest, I began to think that peradventure this might be Hell, of whose intolerable torments I had often heard men talk. My guide, who went before me, answered to my thought, saying, ‘Think not so, for this is not the Hell you believe it to be.’ ” (bolding mine)
Well, Pluto was the god of the underworld… 
Faith and logic are opposites. Logic demands proof but starts with definitions, things taken on faith. Faith defines itself by its refusal to provide proof.
Religion, a human institution, gets itself into trouble when it tries to be logical.
Moderating:
@Ancient_Nerd, the thread is specific to the beliefs and/or religious education of Catholics regarding Limbo and Purgatory. It’s not about our oft-argued analysis of the reality of any religion. As such, your post is off-topic, and heading into hijack territory. If you want to discuss the subject again, feel free to spin off a new thread, but otherwise let’s stay on topic.
This is just a guidance, not a warning.
How to Reply as a linked Topic
Click Reply, in the upper left corner of the reply window is the reply type button, looks like a curving arrow point to the right.
Choose Reply as linked topic and it starts a new thread. As an example, you can choose GD, IMHO or The Pit for it.
That is actually the best method.
I note in this quote..,
…that the “Baltimore Catechism” itself identified that teaching as “the common belief” and as referring to “some place similar to Limbo” — even back then they stopped short of decreeing it absolutely (because the compilers of that book knew better).
The post-Vat2 Church had a number of instances of explicitly going public with “Oh, this thing we ‘always’ did/said? Never was REALLY a mandatory thing. You don’t really HAVE to follow that. (Implicit: You teachers just told you that so you’d shut up and behave)” that really ticked off traditionalist conservatives (see also: Latin Mass. Have never understood why anyone born after 1960 would be hung up on it but they are around)
The Latin mass was an especially weird one because the whole point of doing the Mass in Latin in the first place was that it was the vulgate, the common language that ordinary people spoke every day. Keeping the Mass in Latin in a population where the everyday language was English (or French or Swahili or Mandarin or whatever) defeated the whole point of Latin.
As I was taught, the point of the Tridentine (Latin) Mass was that it was universal: you could go to Mass in England, France, Kenya, or China and it would be exactly the same. And equally unintelligible to everyone.
Wasn’t that a feature? IIRC when the Bible was published in English it was banned. The church wanted to keep the mysticism to themselves. You had to come to church and listen to the priests who spoke in unintelligible ways. They then controlled your whole spiritual life. They were the only ones who knew the “secret” language. Being able to read the bible on your own and make your own decisions was intolerable.